Hugo Chavez, dead at 58

[Lemur]

Coverage here.

It's Org policy not to speak ill of the dead until they are buried, so I'm going to try to think of something nice to say about the man.

Um.

He won at least one election fairly?

-edit-

Oh, and Aló Presidente was hilarious. So there's that.

[HoreTore]

He did win one election fair and square.

That means he fairly won one election more than the "pro-democratic and freedomloving" opposition of Venezuela ever did. Chavez was far from perfect, but at least he was better than the fascists.

[HopAlongBunny]

Viva la revolucion redux?

[drone]

So, in truth, he actually was El Presidente For Life.

[Beskar]

I was actually surprised at this. RIP.

[Kralizec]

Hugo Chavez was the living proof that even a democraticly elected government can be despotic.

He certainly had cojones and his antics were sometimes funny, if you were not actually subject to his rule.

I suppose his views and attitude were understandable given Latin America's general history. It's possible, plausible even that he meant well. Beyond that, I can't think of anything positive to say about him.

[Strike For The South]

CIA

With Polonium

In the lavarotory

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

He was a product of his situation, he was not an evil man, I would say he tried to do the right thing. Rather like Lenin.

Still, we shall have to see what his death brings for Latin America at large, as well as his own country.

I do wonder though, if he has really only just died.

[Rhyfelwyr]

He was the least disastrous of the 3rd world left-wing demagogues. To be fair, he didn't do too badly at all.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Good. LIP Venezuela

[Fragony]

Nobody should die at that age, rest in peace mr Chavez

[Papewaio]

58 is pretty young. Cancer is one of our true enemies, not political affiliations.

[Fragony]

True enemy

With cancer

In political affiliations

[InsaneApache]

GUARDIAN readers were today in mourning for a man who would have banned the Guardian if it was in Venezuela.



The people’s champion was very fond of being agreed with

The death of President Hugo Chavez has robbed Britain’s left wing of an heroic figure whose bravely authoritarian regime stood up to America and journalism.

Julian Cook, from Finsbury Park, said: “He was sort of democratically elected and in many ways Venezuela was kind of almost a free country. I’ll miss him so much.”

Emma Bradford, a level six Guardian reader from Stevenage, added: “He introduced free healthcare and free education and if you have those two things then why on earth would you need a free press?

“Yes, we have those things in Britain and we have a free press, but – for our sins – we are much more complex than the noble Latin American peasants.”

She added: “I only use Venezuelan petrol in my Saab because it has been properly taxed.”

Tom Booker, from Hackney, added: “Journalists would have had a much easier time in Venezuela if they had just agreed with President Chavez. If you read his autobiography you’d realise that he was actually very nice.

“The oil tax paid for precious, beautiful things like schools, hospitals, secret police and the wildly popular TV show Stop What You Are Doing and Listen to the President.”

Meanwhile, tributes were also paid to Chavez by the usual arseholes.

Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez.

[Ronin]

something nice to say....something nice.....uhhhhmmm....

He wasn´t a dictator like some have accused him of.
he was just a wannabe.

[Idaho]

For all his faults, he prevented Venezuela from doing what almost all other oil rich nations have done: bending over and letting multinational oil companies come in, paying off the political elite and taking the bulk of the profits, leaving behind another paradoxical material rich, dirt poor country.

The question is whether Venezuela in 5 years time will have sold off the reserves to the oil multinationals and be accepting imf loans in exchange for cutting the standard of living for ordinary Venezuelans.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Man, movement....legend?

While no fan of his government's leftist policies myself (thought I freely acknowledge some of the obvious short term benefits dfespite seeing too much potential for long term harm), any political observer who does not acknowledge his consumate skill with most of the Venezuelan people and his sweeping impact on Venezuela (and throughout Latin America) is missing the boat.

Those ex-pats celebrating his death are dealing with this the wrong way.

[Lemur]

FWIW, Frontline did an hourlong episode about Chavez and Aló Presidente.

Full episode viewable here.

[Crazed Rabbit]

For all his faults, he prevented Venezuela from doing what almost all other oil rich nations have done: bending over and letting multinational oil companies come in, paying off the political elite and taking the bulk of the profits, leaving behind another paradoxical material rich, dirt poor country.

The question is whether Venezuela in 5 years time will have sold off the reserves to the oil multinationals and be accepting imf loans in exchange for cutting the standard of living for ordinary Venezuelans.

Instead he got rid of many qualified engineers in those refineries and cut maintenance spending which led to more accidents and deaths. By seizing refineries he's made all sorts of companies hesitant to invest in Venezuela.

And isn't the poverty level remain the same or increase?

It will be interesting to see if Venezuela gets a real democracy or if his successor tries to consolidate power.

CR

[Sarmatian]

He made a stop to foreign interest groups getting rich exploiting the wealth of Venezuela, and for that he has my respect, even though his system wasn't much of a democracy.

[Idaho]

Instead he got rid of many qualified engineers in those refineries and cut maintenance spending which led to more accidents and deaths. By seizing refineries he's made all sorts of companies hesitant to invest in Venezuela.

And isn't the poverty level remain the same or increase?

It will be interesting to see if Venezuela gets a real democracy or if his successor tries to consolidate power.

CR

That sounds like it was lifted from the CIA fact book*

Let me guess what the "democratic" candidate will look like:

- Rich
- Talks about improving living standards by increasing foreign investment
- Lived in the US
- Massive advertising budget

*Sponsored by Texaco.

[Idaho]

Oh and would you believe it. Today's Financial Times opinion piece is all about how Venezula must let the oil giants in, in order to stabilise the country's economy.

The vultures are circling.

[Ja'chyra]

To be honest he didn't seem much worse then our politicians, lets see how they compare:

He won at least one election fairly? - If you mean more people voted for them than didn't, afraid not

He introduced free healthcare and free education and if you have those two things then why on earth would you need a free press? - Whereas ours are trying to charge for our free healthcare, do charge for our free education and bend over and take it from the press, when they aren't trying to manipulate/bargain with them to spin their own agenda

“The oil tax paid for precious, beautiful things like schools, hospitals, secret police and the wildly popular TV show Stop What You Are Doing and Listen to the President.” - Instead of being like our taxes that are used to pay for spin doctors, bankers bonuses, politicians pensions and duck houses?????

Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez. - I agree, with these, erm, people as supporters you don't stand much of a chance even if you are a saint.

For all his faults, he prevented Venezuela from doing what almost all other oil rich nations have done: bending over and letting multinational oil companies come in, paying off the political elite and taking the bulk of the profits, leaving behind another paradoxical material rich, dirt poor country. - Ours fail at this

To be honest finding out if he was a good guy or not sounds like more effort then I'm willing to put in but neither will I condemn him as the devil when, compared to our politicians, I can't see he was that bad. So in that context good things about him were:

Never invaded another country for oil on the pretext of WMDs
Didn't let big corporation write the laws (BSkyB amongst others)
Didn't prop up a failing corrupt industry with tax money (Bankers)
Didn't kow tow to the US (Pick a Prime Minister)
Didn't sell of national assets them prop them up with tax money (Railways, utilities, soon to be health, defence, prisons etc etc)

[Idaho]

GUARDIAN readers were today in mourning for a man who would have banned the Guardian if it was in Venezuela.



The people’s champion was very fond of being agreed with

The death of President Hugo Chavez has robbed Britain’s left wing of an heroic figure whose bravely authoritarian regime stood up to America and journalism.

Julian Cook, from Finsbury Park, said: “He was sort of democratically elected and in many ways Venezuela was kind of almost a free country. I’ll miss him so much.”

Emma Bradford, a level six Guardian reader from Stevenage, added: “He introduced free healthcare and free education and if you have those two things then why on earth would you need a free press?

“Yes, we have those things in Britain and we have a free press, but – for our sins – we are much more complex than the noble Latin American peasants.”

She added: “I only use Venezuelan petrol in my Saab because it has been properly taxed.”

Tom Booker, from Hackney, added: “Journalists would have had a much easier time in Venezuela if they had just agreed with President Chavez. If you read his autobiography you’d realise that he was actually very nice.

“The oil tax paid for precious, beautiful things like schools, hospitals, secret police and the wildly popular TV show Stop What You Are Doing and Listen to the President.”

Meanwhile, tributes were also paid to Chavez by the usual arseholes.

Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez.

You need to pay respect to the Mash by crediting them :-)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

[InsaneApache]

You need to pay respect to the Mash by crediting them :-)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

Indeed it was remiss of me.

[Brenus]

What monster was Chavez: Depriving big Oil Companies of the profit they would have made on their under paid workers’ sweat. All these shares holders not been able to buy a new boat… Not like in the UK where the Energy Companies pocket billion but still increase the prices, where the most vulnerable have to choose between heating and eating, where pensioners are left to die because financial profits are the priority, where bankers who are responsible for one of the biggest crisis in History are still pocketing millions.
Chavez use oil money to help the poor: how indecent of him.

Chavez just decreased drastically illiteracy (from around 65000 teachers to 350000), created hospital and health centres in the barrios, and enforced a land reform for the poor. Infant mortality decreased, and unemployment as well.
He decriminalised abortion,
That will not stop Rightist and Conservatives Newspapers to pretend ““a country in far worse condition than it was when he became president, its future clouded by rivals for succession in a constitutional crisis of his Bolivarian party’s making and an economy in chaos” (Miami Herald).

Elected twice (and not because his brother decided he was), escaping (just) a Military Coup, he frightened the freedom of media, but with a bizarre twist, the dictator allowed 90 % of the media to be in owned by opponents who openly appeal to kill him.
“His presidential election victories — in 1998, 2000 and 2006, as well as his victory over an attempt to recall him in a 2004 referendum — were all recognized by credible international observers” (Time World).

He initiate a democratic reform seeing that a Representative can be impeached if a sufficient number of citizens petition for it (elections have to be organised). When he was defeated for a referendum (51% to 49%), he accepted the vote by the majority.
Chavez was not perfect, and due to the past story of Latin America with the USA, his tendency to find all opponents to this power acceptable was one of the black spots. However, in my knowledge, he never armed dictators, or trained their police.

[Idaho]

Is it a bit of a lol storm for these US critics to have a pop at Chavez when you look at the looooong list of n'ar do wells and outright crooks the US not only created through their School of the Americas, but supported in their personal fiefdom of central and south america.

[Lemur]

their personal fiefdom of central and south america.

Personal favorite: William Walker, American mercenary and short person (5'2"). Conquered Nicaragua in 1857, re-instituted slavery, and declared himself Presidente for life. That's style, that is.

[Crazed Rabbit]

That sounds like it was lifted from the CIA fact book*

...

*Sponsored by Texaco.

Or, you know, talking to a Venezuelan chemical engineer and reading safety analysis of a deadly explosion at a Venezuelan refinery.

Oh and would you believe it. Today's Financial Times opinion piece is all about how Venezula must let the oil giants in, in order to stabilise the country's economy.

And who's fault is it that Venezuela's economy is crap?

Is it a bit of a lol storm for these US critics to have a pop at Chavez when you look at the looooong list of n'ar do wells and outright crooks the US not only created through their School of the Americas, but supported in their personal fiefdom of central and south america.

That doesn't make Chavez any better. The best you can argue is that he was, in part, a reaction to what the USA did.

What monster was Chavez: Depriving big Oil Companies of the profit they would have made on their under paid workers’ sweat. All these shares holders not been able to buy a new boat… Not like in the UK where the Energy Companies pocket billion but still increase the prices, where the most vulnerable have to choose between heating and eating, where pensioners are left to die because financial profits are the priority, where bankers who are responsible for one of the biggest crisis in History are still pocketing millions.
Chavez use oil money to help the poor: how indecent of him.

He helped himself plenty - Chavez's family wealth is estimated to be around $2 billion USD. I wonder how many poor he could have helped with $1 billion USD. And guess what - not all people who own stocks are filthy rich yacht owners!

CR

[HopAlongBunny]

I guess it depends on how you "frame" his picture.

Dedicated nationalist who prevented the "sucking dry" of Venezuela's bounty; champion of the poor who built and ran schools, hospitals and services for the poor; benefactor who internalized the wealth created to such an extent that his pockets turned to gold

or

Communist; prevented the enrichment of foreign nationals; corrupt swine who cast pennies to the poor while living in opulence (they should be so lucky to get cake); a radical who impoverished the nation by attempting to "lift all boats".