Will Obamacare succeed where term limits failed?

[drone]

The distance from a conservative US republican(Lemur) and a Norwegian socialist(myself) isn't always so huge...

Lemur comes across more as a 90's moderate, which in this day and age means he's a freedon hating pinko to most of the Republican base.

I'm a bit further to the right, but even I knew this scheme would be a disaster. If true healthcare reform is to happen, we need to go to a single-payer system. As it stands (both pre- and post-Obamacare) the system's main goal is to siphon as much money out of your pockets before your die. As long as healthcare is not non-profit, this will always be the case.

[Fisherking]

It was passed by Congress, so there is no doubt it is flawed.

Just looking from here, without reading the thing I figure the main beneficiaries of the program are insurance companies, large healthcare providers and government agencies.

It is just an estimation but I think the people will take it in the shorts, and the pocket of course.

The German system works well here, but I have serious doubts that it can work there. I shudder at the thought of a government run healthcare system as it would be under funded and so filled with red tape you would long since have died before you got in to see a government doctor.

My guess is this will be about as good as you can get. You will never find a way of getting back to charging according to the means of the patient to pay. Docs don’t work for a chicken dinner any more.

[HoreTore]

The need to avoid waste, the number one leading cause of birth among bureaucrats, will always be present, private or public.

Though the extreme number of people who wish to "avoid waste of tax payer money" do seem to have a special ability when it comes to pissing away money on useless levels of red tape.

Yes, I'm looking at you, conservatives.

[Lemur]

I figure the main beneficiaries of the program are insurance companies, large healthcare providers and government agencies.

Largely correct. Health Insurance and hospital stocks skyrocketed the moment Obamacare was passed.

It is just an estimation but I think the people will take it in the shorts, and the pocket of course.

Hard to estimate. Our pre-Obamacare system was already outpacing inflation by well over 100%. As economists say, trends that cannot continue ... don't. So something was (is) going to break. I doubt you can blame the deep dysfunction of our healthcare system exclusively or even primarily on an initiative as watered-down and modest as Obamacare. Not that people won't try, bless their little hearts.

I shudder at the thought of a government run healthcare system as it would be under funded and so filled with red tape you would long since have died before you got in to see a government doctor.

If this were true, you would see corresponding health data from single-payer systems, showing less efficiency and worse health results. The opposite is true.

My guess is this will be about as good as you can get.

What are you basing that on? Other nations have enacted objectively better systems than ours, and have decades of documented experience to back it up. I am continually amazed by the empiricism-free and data-free nature of these sorts of objections.

[Papewaio]

This is a strange one.

There are so many healthcare systems in the world.

Why not look at the top ten as rated for infant mortality, life expectancy, emergency queue length, surgery queue length.

Then look at the cost to implement these and how they were implemented.

Pick and choose based on real world results.

[Fisherking]

I would prefer to be optimistic and say it is only a small problem that can quickly brought under control.

I know other governments have done a decent job of it and single payer systems can work.
My pessimism is based on how the US Government tends to function and how Congress behaves.

I am truly sorry to hear that healthcare has skyrocketed to those levels.