House votes to continue NSA spying on citizens

[rvg]

Citizens United v. the FEC. That decision was as wrong as wrong decisions get.

Their reasoning is logical enough. What's your beef exactly?

This is the information age. Stupid axioms about something being as old as civilization itself ignores the fact that we live in an era of change and expanding possibilities. If the American people fail to try for a better option, the alternative is not for things to stay the same, but to get worse in a way that you don't foresee. What started with the Patriot Act and has continued (even thrived) under Obama's administration is the beginnings of a police state that threatens everything. Screw the rhetoric, look at the facts. The infrastructure is there, thanks to tax-payer dollars. We now live in a free society at the mercy of unelected spooks. Fuck that.

Bla bla bla big brother bla bla evil feds bla bla I must know everything the CIA knows, does, plans or thinks. You know what, no. NO. There are things you don't need to know.

Why? Who said that? Whose decision is that?

The state, thank God. It's common sense really.

[TheLastDays]

Their reasoning is logical enough. What's your beef exactly?

Bla bla bla big brother bla bla evil feds bla bla I must know everything the CIA knows, does, plans or thinks. You know what, no. NO. There are things you don't need to know.

The state, thank God. It's common sense really.

Alright, so who is "the state"? I thought that's the people... Now I do overreact to make a point, just to make that clear, but the problem is that today we experience an age where we move from a people that knew mostly about the state and therefore cared about it to a small elite that removes more and more from "necessary public knowledge" and thus creates their own secret society. The voter, who is supposed to decide the "future of the land" doesn't know what he needs to know to even make informed decisions.

And if I don't need to know everything the CIA does then why in the world are they allowed to know everything I do?

[rvg]

Alright, so who is "the state"? I thought that's the people...

The state is the people. At least the representative democracy is.

The voter, who is supposed to decide the "future of the land" doesn't know what he needs to know to even make informed decisions.

The average voter is a moron who shouldn't be trusted with a safety scissors, let alone something important.

And if I don't need to know everything the CIA does then why in the world are they allowed to know everything I do?

Because they're the CIA. The state has allowed them to do that.

[TheLastDays]

The average voter is a moron who shouldn't be trusted with a safety scissors, let alone something important.

Alright, now we're talking. So why does everyone still believe democracy is the way to go?

Because they're the CIA. The state has allowed them to do that.

Not my state.

[rvg]

Are you totally opposed to the idea of reforming the intelligence apparatus, rvg, or do you firmly believe that people should behave like sheep and just listen to their betters?

You're presenting me with a false dilemma.

[Montmorency]

True democracy died with the ancient Athens.

No, it died with the Germanic "barbarians".

But anyway, this is equivocation.

You're presenting me with a false dilemma.

What other options are there than: to reform, or not to reform?

Anyway, it's at least nice to know that they aren't wasting too much on trying to store all this data.

[drone]

Anyway, it's at least nice to know that they aren't wasting too much on trying to store all this data.

I wonder how high a price tag that new taxpayer-funded server farm in Utah has.

The only way the program will be shut down is when it is used to spy on a serving member of Congress for election dirty tricks. And this will happen eventually.

[Montmorency]

I wonder how high a price tag that new taxpayer-funded server farm in Utah has.

$3 billion, $5 billion, I dunno - but at least some bang for the buck I figure.



Hopefully, this is a long-enough term investment that, assuming most of the data is flushed regularly, and assuming the technology used is sufficiently secret and/or cutting-edge and will be periodically upgraded, there will be no need for such constructions for many decades.

For this specific purpose, at least...

The only way the program will be shut down is when it is used to spy on a serving member of Congress for election dirty tricks.

What if they already do that to all of them? What if that's part of why Congress hasn't been all that upset by the NSA's policies?

[Greyblades]

I'm presenting you with the real dilemma, going on in America, right now.

I think he means a false dichtomy, translation: he thinks the two options you said arent the only options.

[Gregoshi]

The state is the people. At least the representative democracy is.

The average voter is a moron who shouldn't be trusted with a safety scissors, let alone something important.

Impressive back-to-back comments.

[rvg]

Impressive back-to-back comments.

Look at Congress. Those clowns represent America.

[Papewaio]

General Petraeus.

Was found out by an email trail. Was it really the FBI who found this out or was it an NSA background check?

Was it legit or did someone in NSA have a score to settle with the CIA head?