Rus in high: strategy and tactics

[LordK9]

With Gold (VI), what is the variance og Mongol start point? When I played the Turks on "Early", they totally surprised me by starting in Armenia.

[Gilrandir]

I am aware of the Horde's appearing numbers' dependence on the quantity of troops in Khazar, but I myself never approach it and other factions (or rebel) troops' presence there cause a regular appearance of about 10-12 stacks of the nomads. So I expect to see that much of the Mongols in my game too. The same dependence is between the number of troops in Kiev and the Horde's prospective attacking numbers thereof. So I thought of keeping a small garrison in Kiev and replenishing it from Lithuania or Chernigov the same turn the Mongols attack Kiev (so that they don't know I'm bringing in reinforcements). But such a trick will only mean that they will keep a significant portion of their troops intact in Khazar and will attack me again with great numbers in a couple of years. So I'm still in two minds whether I should have two lesser battles instead of one but huge.
As for trying to hold out in Volgo-Bulgaria, I think it is out of the question: if Mongols attack it from Khazar they won't have to cross any bridge, so their numbers will rule supreme.
What about keeping a distracting garrison in Khazar? Is it worth it?
Thank you all for sharing your mind and giving tips. If you have any new thoughts, you are welcome to express them.

[ferdi]

in vanilla game Horde could appeear in Khazar, Armenia, Georgia and Volga-Bulgaria. if u have put great garrison in Khazar they probably won't appear there. but ı dont exactly remember how rare this happens.
In viking-invasion mods they appear in just in Khazar and with more troops then vanilla game(vanilla=5000 in mods 10.000+).
Chernigov become (or will be) your gravity center after Horde take Khazar cause they became neighbour of your 5 province
1-Volga-bulgaria 2-Ryazan 3-Chernigov 4-Pereyaslavl 5-Kiev
so your main army will be there. and back up in Lithuania, Smolenks and Moscow.
I learn Volga tacking by trying it. under 7 star general and with 60-80 men(one stock Boyar+ one Druzhina Cavalry) I always won cause they attack with 120-150 men may be least not more.
your tactic

I thought of keeping a small garrison in Kiev and replenishing it from Lithuania or Chernigov the same turn the Mongols attack Kiev (so that they don't know I'm bringing in reinforcements)

will work. try it. Horde wont wait in Khazar with their all troops. they will attack other neighbors. if they appeared in Armenia and Khazar they probaly attack on Georgia,Turks or both but be careful about other provinces

[Cyprian2]

As drone has said, the bridge battle in Kiev is a good way to stall them, provided you have the right combination of crossbows, halbs, and heavy cav. And, yes, good idea keeping reinforcements in neighbouring provinces. Another thing I've done -- and it led to one of the most spectacular siege battles I ever played -- is fortify Khazar to the max -- upgrading to citadel with full artillery. The mongols are pretty bad at sieges, so a decent garrison of high valour troops should give them a run for their money. As I recall, the battle lasted well over an hour and, while I did eventually lose, the mongol forces were so heavily damaged that they presented only a minor threat thereafter.

Also, your resolve to start in high will make preparations much more difficult. Good luck with that. For me, starting in early, I love being able to prepare slowly and meticulously. Also, Khazar heavy cavalry is only available in early, and I love stock-piling them to go against the horde.

[Gilrandir]

As drone has said, the bridge battle in Kiev is a good way to stall them, provided you have the right combination of crossbows, halbs, and heavy cav. And, yes, good idea keeping reinforcements in neighbouring provinces. Another thing I've done -- and it led to one of the most spectacular siege battles I ever played -- is fortify Khazar to the max -- upgrading to citadel with full artillery. The mongols are pretty bad at sieges, so a decent garrison of high valour troops should give them a run for their money. As I recall, the battle lasted well over an hour and, while I did eventually lose, the mongol forces were so heavily damaged that they presented only a minor threat thereafter.

Also, your resolve to start in high will make preparations much more difficult. Good luck with that. For me, starting in early, I love being able to prepare slowly and meticulously. Also, Khazar heavy cavalry is only available in early, and I love stock-piling them to go against the horde.

Holding out in Khazar is a good idea which I still debate with myself. But I'm afraid I won't have time (and perhaps money) to fortify the fortress that much. Plus a big fortress will demand a large garrison which will provoke greater Horde's numbers at appearence.
Time will be a crucial factor for me, I'm even not sure if I will have halbs - I don't know what the starting levels of fortresses in Rus provinces are. And I will set out with 4 000 florins in my treasury only. So I will have to build a port in Kiev (to attract mercs) and in Novgorod plus a trading post plus a ship (possibly more that one) to get the trade started. And think about army training and fortress upgrading and building errection expenditures! Well, I expect my subjects will have to give every penny to be well prepared for the Horde.
As for starting in early, I don't think one can do it with Russians (or People of Novgorod, as they are named) in my game, they are simply unavailable.
But thank you for expressing your views.

[drone]

Time will be a crucial factor for me, I'm even not sure if I will have halbs - I don't know what the starting levels of fortresses in Rus provinces are. And I will set out with 4 000 florins in my treasury only. So I will have to build a port in Kiev (to attract mercs) and in Novgorod plus a trading post plus a ship (possibly more that one) to get the trade started. And think about army training and fortress upgrading and building errection expenditures! Well, I expect my subjects will have to give every penny to be well prepared for the Horde.

In VI, both Muscovy and Novgorod have Citadels, complete with Town Militias, Bowyers Workshops, Horse Breeder Guilds and Armourers Guilds. Kiev has a Fort, Port, Town Watch, and Horse Farmer. Pereyaslavl only has an Inn. So you can start getting Halberdiers right away, and I would suggest going to Bowyers Guilds in either Muscovy or Novgorod to get Arbalests.

[Cyprian2]

Holding out in Khazar is a good idea which I still debate with myself. But I'm afraid I won't have time (and perhaps money) to fortify the fortress that much. Plus a big fortress will demand a large garrison which will provoke greater Horde's numbers at appearence. Time will be a crucial factor for me, I'm even not sure if I will have halbs - I don't know what the starting levels of fortresses in Rus provinces are. And I will set out with 4 000 florins in my treasury only. So I will have to build a port in Kiev (to attract mercs) and in Novgorod plus a trading post plus a ship (possibly more that one) to get the trade started. And think about army training and fortress upgrading and building errection expenditures! Well, I expect my subjects will have to give every penny to be well prepared for the Horde.
As for starting in early, I don't think one can do it with Russians (or People of Novgorod, as they are named) in my game, they are simply unavailable.
But thank you for expressing your views.

Good points, Gilrandir. I should have mentioned that my "epic" siege of Khazar was fought as the Byzantines, having migrated to that area after many years of empire building. I completely forgot that the PoN are not available in Early. I guess I've been spoiled by too many mods!

I think a war of attrition is the way to go with the Horde. Keeping your garrisons down in the emergent provinces is definitely a good idea. The nice thing about a citadel is that even a small garrison can stall (and do great damage to) an advancing host. You might also consider letting said provinces rebel after stripping them of military buildings (no armourer, obviously), which will prevent the horde from teching up too soon, and give you that much more time to create a bottle-neck in Kiev in which to face the initial onslaught. The bridge battle, even if lost, will be a way to defang the horde's largest armies. Keep an army or two (whatever you can afford) in reserve, so that you can counter attack if your forward army is defeated.

All of this talk of Rus in high has given me a hankering to try it myself, but I won't steal your thunder. (That is, I'll let you make a full report of your endeavour before I try anything myself.) Keep us updated, and good luck!

[Gilrandir]

In VI, both Muscovy and Novgorod have Citadels, complete with Town Militias, Bowyers Workshops, Horse Breeder Guilds and Armourers Guilds. Kiev has a Fort, Port, Town Watch, and Horse Farmer. Pereyaslavl only has an Inn. So you can start getting Halberdiers right away, and I would suggest going to Bowyers Guilds in either Muscovy or Novgorod to get Arbalests.

That is exceptionally good news. It will spare me much time and money so that I can start some shipborne trade from Novgorod and probably Kiev.