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All kinds of stuff for the statisticians among the Org to chew on in here. It was very interesting to me to learn that Obama actually carried significantly fewer counties than Dukakis did in '88. I hadn't realized the extent of the impact toward urbanization in the US, particularly with respect to elections. Also didn't realize that blue collar (union) voters tended to favor the Republicans. Seems counterintuitive that they would get the "labour" vote. Lots of stuff to chew on. I'm sure Republican strategists are aware of the problems they are facing, but so far they seem powerless to do anything about it. There are some (bobby Jindal, for example) that seem to be making the right kind of noises to get the party back on track, but for the most part they get shouted down. Linky: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ition/?hp&_r=0
The GOP used the gun control issue to pry away union voters from Democrats. A lot of blue collar workers in the Northeast/Midwest hunt religiously, the GOP used this as a wedge.
How can this be anything to chew on, if you work hard the sweat on your brows belongs to you.
Not to the meth-addict that hopefully doesn't live next to you
Not to the meth-addict that hopefully doesn't live next to you
I don't really understand. Are you saying that the GOP are the champions of the working class?
Originally Posted by Goofball:
I don't really understand. Are you saying that the GOP are the champions of the working class?
No, they are the champions of getting people to vote against their best interests. I don't really understand. Are you saying that the GOP are the champions of the working class?
Originally Posted by drone:
No, they are the champions of getting people to vote against their best interests.
There is an interesting book that will elaborate on this point if needed.No, they are the champions of getting people to vote against their best interests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_...with_Kansas%3F
Originally Posted by drone:
No, they are the champions of getting people to vote against their best interests.
Do Hollywood liberals vote against their best interests? Is someone's interests solely their pocketbook?No, they are the champions of getting people to vote against their best interests.
Originally Posted by Goofball:
I don't really understand. Are you saying that the GOP are the champions of the working class?
One of their better arguments is that you should be able to work hard and get ahead- that resonates with many working class voters. In my office you regularly hear people grumbling about how they should quit their jobs and just go on welfare, or how their unemployed neighbor has everything they do without having to work, ect.I don't really understand. Are you saying that the GOP are the champions of the working class?
Originally Posted by Xiahou:
One of their better arguments is that you should be able to work hard and get ahead- that resonates with many working class voters. In my office you regularly hear people grumbling about how they should quit their jobs and just go on welfare, or how their unemployed neighbor has everything they do without having to work, ect.
The American dream gives another perspective perhaps? The reason social democracy got the worker support is the realisation that the deck is stacked. The welfare neightbour is disliked, but he's worth it if he's the price of restacking the deck.One of their better arguments is that you should be able to work hard and get ahead- that resonates with many working class voters. In my office you regularly hear people grumbling about how they should quit their jobs and just go on welfare, or how their unemployed neighbor has everything they do without having to work, ect.
Personally I've found "the slave and the president" (or Daifugō since by some reason it never got an English name) to be an excellent illustration of the stacked deck in society. The distrinct rule is that the loser(s) (slave) of the last round gives their best card(s) to the winner(s) (president) while getting the worst in return. After that you play normally. So the odds of going from last place to the first in one round is possible, but in practice it's very hard to move more than 1-2 places in any direction. View one round as a generation and you'll see the establishment of an upper class (the winners) and a lover class (the losers) that's quite rigid.
So no matter how good player you are, that biased card trade will entrench you towards you current position.
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
Someone who's never been on welfare would say that. Smart people like you should be given ten lashes every time you suggest that people on welfare have it easier.
Probably depends on which workers welfare check receivers are being compared to. Obviously, they're doing far more poorly compared to most. However, they might be better off materially compared to someone making minimum wage for a lot less effort. Somewhat analogously, I know a mother on disability that has discouraged her daughter from working because the money the daughter would bring in is too little to make up for the loss in disability money. In the short term, that thinking seems to make sense but in the long run, the gap in the resume and years of lost experience seem like a bad idea.Someone who's never been on welfare would say that. Smart people like you should be given ten lashes every time you suggest that people on welfare have it easier.
Originally Posted by Xiahou:
In my office you regularly hear people grumbling about how they should quit their jobs and just go on welfare, or how their unemployed neighbor has everything they do without having to work, ect.
There are four possible explanations for this phenomenon:In my office you regularly hear people grumbling about how they should quit their jobs and just go on welfare, or how their unemployed neighbor has everything they do without having to work, ect.
- Your co-workers don't actually know anyone on welfare. (The one person I know taking public assistance is poorer than poor, and has a hell of a time meeting her minimum rent and food budget for the month.)
- Your co-workers all happen to know outstanding scammers. Unlikely. Also, if you have a criminal bent of mind, there are far more lucrative scams than disability and/or welfare.
- Your co-workers listen to a lot of rightwing AM radio and/or subscribe to Glenn Beck. In which case empirical reality is a non-issue.
- Last and least likely, Pennsylvannia may be the only state in the Union that hands out a middle class income to people on welfare. Pretty sure this is not true.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
How can this be anything to chew on, if you work hard the sweat on your brows belongs to you.
Not to the meth-addict that hopefully doesn't live next to you
You do know that social democracy draws most of their support from the working class right? Maybe less now than it used to, if nothing else because the working class itself has changed.How can this be anything to chew on, if you work hard the sweat on your brows belongs to you.
Not to the meth-addict that hopefully doesn't live next to you
For the US situation to be true because of that, then the working class can't on an instinctual level relate the democrats with social democracy.
Now, the answer in the US has probably with conservative vs liberal considered being the main difference between the parties, rather than political ideologies.
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
I favor a living constitution. Otherwise I'd only have 3/5s of a great grandpa. :D
There is a difference between a living Constitution and an amended one. The living version has a less stringent review process and does not carry the same weight and respect. The amended one is why you have a whole great grandfather.I favor a living constitution. Otherwise I'd only have 3/5s of a great grandpa. :D
Interpretation has nothing to do with it, you have a whole great grandfather because the 14th amendment says you do. It fixed an existing problem with the original document, and it did so with the approval of the state legislators (albeit with some coercement in the warmer climes). If some random federal judge had ruled your ancestor equal to 1 person, he would have been ridiculed as though he enabled the state to strip you of property for third party gain, or something else just as assinine.
Look at the proposal and ratification requirements for amending the Constitution (Article V), and consider the possible actors. The executive and judicial branches are completely cut out of the picture. Congress can propose amendments, but cannot ratify. Congress can be bypassed in the proposal step by the states with the national convention mechanism. The power to alter to Constitution lies with the people or the States, not the federal government which the document is meant to limit.
Look at the proposal and ratification requirements for amending the Constitution (Article V), and consider the possible actors. The executive and judicial branches are completely cut out of the picture. Congress can propose amendments, but cannot ratify. Congress can be bypassed in the proposal step by the states with the national convention mechanism. The power to alter to Constitution lies with the people or the States, not the federal government which the document is meant to limit.
The constitutional discussion we should be having is the recourse of the people and the States for when all three branches of the federal government neglect or ignore in their oaths. The 16th and 17th amendments have weakened the States' powers and the built-in checks and balances don't work when everyone is getting paid off.
YOu know for being called the Progressive Period, majority of stuff they did was pretty ass backwards.
The GOP has a lot of potential, but yes - urbanization has dented the impact our our attempts to win the Presidency. It is a tough nut to crack in order to figure out how to win, but we already know how to be competitive. Anyway, the Democratic party represents wealthy, highly intelligent hipsters and draws extremely ignorant unemployed urban voters to win elections. The Republican party represents wealthy, established and un-trendy businesspeople and draws ignorant but hard working suburban and rural voters and has been having a hard time building a coalition to win the highest office.
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Don’t worry so much, it is your turn next. Unless you try very hard to mess it up. But who ever it is they will be just as bad a dud as the one there now.
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