Sensationalist UK Headline sparks Eurarabia Scare

[Kadagar_AV]

Hey Kad, maybe think about cross-contamination? As in, if pork and other meats are prepared on the same surface or with the same equipment, then grease from the pork will contaminate the rest.

Of course, you could resolve that by segregating work-stations, which is likely what many of the franchises have done, but ultimately that is a more expensive option, and possibly not worth it depending on what local demand looks like.

So stuff your Eurabia.

Hey Monty, maybe think of a white Europe with Christianity being secular.

[Pannonian]

Hey Kad, maybe think about cross-contamination? As in, if pork and other meats are prepared on the same surface or with the same equipment, then grease from the pork will contaminate the rest.

Of course, you could resolve that by segregating work-stations, which is likely what many of the franchises have done, but ultimately that is a more expensive option, and possibly not worth it depending on what local demand looks like.

So stuff your Eurabia.

Cross contamination is just nonsense, as Kad can educatedly explain to you from Sweden, the mostest and bestest educated country in the world in the field of cultural customs. Britain's history with the Indian mutiny means nothing in comparison with Kad's enlightened views.

[Montmorency]

Specific > General infringes on the needs of people who live elsewhere? Nice.

[Kadagar_AV]

Cross contamination is just nonsense, as Kad can educatedly explain to you from Sweden, the mostest and bestest educated country in the world in the field of cultural customs. Britain's history with the Indian mutiny means nothing in comparison with Kad's enlightened views.

I know we used to be among the leading nations in the PISA tests until we started to accept Arabs and Sub-Saharan-Africans (not talking about South-Africans here).

So yeah, we used to be the "bestest" and "mostest" educated nation, or at least among them... Before we started with this ****.

[Beskar]

Well, if you don't deem that as a sign of Islamization... I really am lost for words.

In my world view, any store that adhere to a religion is a sign of that religion spreading.

And again: It wouldn't be a problem if they ALSO catered for Muslims... It becomes a problem when they refuse to cater to other needs. As *drumroll* that is a sign of Islamization.

Is the Kosher Deli I sometimes visit because of the good quality food a sign of Jewish World Wide Conspiracy ?

If the answer is "No", then you understand exactly how I feel about this situation. If you answer "Yes", well.... I am not sure what can help you.

[Pannonian]

Is the Kosher Deli I sometimes visit because of the good quality food a sign of Jewish World Wide Conspiracy ?

If the answer is "No", then you understand exactly how I feel about this situation. If you answer "Yes", well.... I am not sure what can help you.

I'd like these restaurants to go ahead with their different menu, but call it kosher instead of halal, and see if the usuals whine about that as well.

[Papewaio]

Is the Kosher Deli I sometimes visit because of the good quality food a sign of Jewish World Wide Conspiracy ?

If the answer is "No", then you understand exactly how I feel about this situation. If you answer "Yes", well.... I am not sure what can help you.

There is pros and cons to both sides of this.

The Halal options are actually healthier as bacon tastes great but is not a lean protein source.

The issue isn't adding Kosher or Halal options it is removing other ones to placate a religious creed.

Problem for subway is that Kosher/Halal would require multiple work benches, preparation rooms, fridges, utensils etc. Easier to setup dedicated branches to cater for each.

Yesterday I had a kebab plate for lunch, day before that ramen, lunch before that steak, chips and a beer. If I'm getting a kebab its from a Halal food stall typically in a food court with Indian, Chinese, European and other options.

It would be religious encroachment if all the other stalls have to conform to the Halal one.

[Montmorency]

Notice that all those other stalls are technically different purveyors...

And as you said:

Problem for subway is that Kosher/Halal would require multiple work benches, preparation rooms, fridges, utensils etc. Easier to setup dedicated branches to cater for each.

[HoreTore]

Hey Kad, maybe think about cross-contamination? As in, if pork and other meats are prepared on the same surface or with the same equipment, then grease from the pork will contaminate the rest.

Of course, you could resolve that by segregating work-stations, which is likely what many of the franchises have done, but ultimately that is a more expensive option, and possibly not worth it depending on what local demand looks like.

So stuff your Eurabia.

More important than contamination* is the issue of cost. The larger you make your menu, the larger your costs will be. You can make up that cost by selling more stuff, but having stuff on your menu nobody or only a few buys is a sure-fire way to bankruptcy. I'm guessing that the stores who switched to halal didn't sell much pork anyway, making the pork option very expensive.

*though it is a risk, due to different foods needing different preparation, and so mixing two different meats may cause problems

[Pannonian]

More important than contamination* is the issue of cost. The larger you make your menu, the larger your costs will be. You can make up that cost by selling more stuff, but having stuff on your menu nobody or only a few buys is a sure-fire way to bankruptcy. I'm guessing that the stores who switched to halal didn't sell much pork anyway, making the pork option very expensive.

*though it is a risk, due to different foods needing different preparation, and so mixing two different meats may cause problems

I went to a Chinese restaurant recently and ordered one of my favourite dishes. They told me they stopped doing that because very few people ever ordered it. Should I rage at the Muslims for forcing said restaurant to stop stocking said dish? Although it was shellfish, and shellfish are apparently halal if prepared correctly, so maybe I should rage at the Jews instead.

[Papewaio]

Title change from:
State Schools In Birmingham Isolate Non-Muslims. Eurabia Imminent.
To:
Sensationalist UK Headline sparks Eurarabia Scare in the Right-Wing

Surely we can have a discourse without smearing.

I am not right wing :p

[Beskar]

Actually the thread was split, not renamed, because the little posting in the main thread was drowned out by the mass influx on this subject, thus deserves its own place.

[Fragony]

I went to a Chinese restaurant recently and ordered one of my favourite dishes. They told me they stopped doing that because very few people ever ordered it. Should I rage at the Muslims for forcing said restaurant to stop stocking said dish? Although it was shellfish, and shellfish are apparently halal if prepared correctly, so maybe I should rage at the Jews instead.

This has nothing to do with supply and demand, but with muslims imposing their religious rules. It doesn't say 'high demand' but 'strong demands'.

[Ironside]

I know we used to be among the leading nations in the PISA tests until we started to accept Arabs and Sub-Saharan-Africans (not talking about South-Africans here).

So yeah, we used to be the "bestest" and "mostest" educated nation, or at least among them... Before we started with this ****.

The primary drop is because of shitty school reforms, not immigration. fof on the matter, in Swedish. The very short version is that induvidual learning becomes, "here's a computer, good luck finding what you need".

[HoreTore]

The primary drop is because of shitty school reforms, not immigration. fof on the matter, in Swedish. The very short version is that induvidual learning becomes, "here's a computer, good luck finding what you need".

How did that privatization reform work out for you guys?

This has nothing to do with supply and demand, but with muslims imposing their religious rules. It doesn't say 'high demand' but 'strong demands'.

Everything concerning big businesses has to do with supply and demand, frags. Subway isn't looking to make less money, sorry.

But yeah, do you have any proof of this "strong demand"? A letter or a protest or something like that? Or is your knowledge more esoteric in nature?

[Fragony]

Everything concerning big businesses has to do with supply and demand, frags. Subway isn't looking to make less money, sorry.

If there was no demand for pork then why was it there in the first place. Sometimes I really want to slap you

[Beskar]

If there was no demand for pork then why was it there in the first place. Sometimes I really want to slap you

Because the normal stores offered it, so it was a carry over into the speciality Halai ones, but no one was buying it in those, so they decided to use Turkey-ham instead.

[Ironside]

How did that privatization reform work out for you guys?

As expected, poorly that is. Signs of grade inflation and a tendency for their students to do slightly worse in higher education. There's also a problem with parents not doing informed choises so poor schools survives until they're forced to be closed by the school inspection. Some of them are really good though. It haven't been the prime drive of the grade drop. On the pro-side, student well-being is very high.

[Fragony]

Because the normal stores offered it, so it was a carry over into the speciality Halai ones, but no one was buying it in those, so they decided to use Turkey-ham instead.

Sure babe

[Seamus Fermanagh]

There is pros and cons to both sides of this.

The Halal options are actually healthier as bacon tastes great but is not a lean protein source.

The issue isn't adding Kosher or Halal options it is removing other ones to placate a religious creed.

Problem for subway is that Kosher/Halal would require multiple work benches, preparation rooms, fridges, utensils etc. Easier to setup dedicated branches to cater for each.

Yesterday I had a kebab plate for lunch, day before that ramen, lunch before that steak, chips and a beer. If I'm getting a kebab its from a Halal food stall typically in a food court with Indian, Chinese, European and other options.

It would be religious encroachment if all the other stalls have to conform to the Halal one.

HOW DARE YOU?!? Reason and calmly rational posting in THIS thread? And you a moderator....

[Montmorency]

But all of it is open to serious investigation, not this shoddy journalism.

none of our standard meat products are being sold at Halal Subway stores.

So it extends to the full range of meats, not just pork.

I've read that there are some partial-halal locations in the US, but I haven't managed a count.

In New York, all kosher Subway's have failed within a few years, despite (or possibly due to) the enormous proportion of existing kosher eateries.

So the big question is, how many eateries in the UK are already full halal besides these Subway's locations?

Look at it this way - Muslims are about 5% of the population in the UK, presumably fewer in Ireland.

If we started to see a huge and disproportionate shift to halal foods in all sorts of different eateries, big and small, outside of mixed or majority-Muslim neighborhoods, at the expense of other cuisines, disproportionate both to past and to potential demand, then we could start to wonder whether there aren't purely economic motivations behind the surge. If there were already plenty of halal establishments to service existing neighborhoods a decade ago, then that might be strange.

Another measure would be how diverse halal cuisine is, or how open it is to international kitchens. For instance, in NYC there are plenty of Kosher pizza, Chinese, Latin, etc. restaurants. If there were a predominant trend in halal eateries, in particular new ones, to represent only "traditional" Muslim cuisine, then that might be worrisome.

Subway's is basically a sandwich shop, so I'm not sure it could be counted as a conversion of any particular cuisine to halal - "sandwich" is too general.
185 locations constitutes I guess 12% of all Subway's in the Isles. That seems to reflect both high demand in the past, and projected demand-growth, since this was begun in 2007.

But I guess actually doing the footwork is hard...

[Beskar]

However I would be surprised that at all these stores there wasn't some level of interest in pork products. It's one thing to supply extra options for the paying customer its another to remove options to other customers because someone else doesn't want it.

Actually, they are not really removing an option, they are replacing with a similar product so they get more sales from that choice.

[Fragony]

The footwork ain't so hard. And if you interperate that as boots marching in the street, it was already expected that you would because it's too obvious to do that so don't.

From there,

Brittain has a problem, these things go piecemeal, you might not see what is being done out of some completite naivity, which is the most virtious of sins, but demands are set all over. Just because is doesn't always work doesn't mean they aren't trying. Can I recommend you a hotel in an enriched area in London during ramadan, we will take bets on how far you get within 500 meters if you are eating something without at least getting remarks, but you are probably going to get a more stern eye. Try it.

Edit: little addition, laugh it of all you want but yeah I got muslim friends. It is MUCH worse for them, they despise these fundies much more than I do, and that is really hard. For them they are as welcome as the inquisition.

[drone]

In New York, all kosher Subway's have failed within a few years, despite (or possibly due to) the enormous proportion of existing kosher eateries.

If you are going to eat kosher in NYC, why in the world would you go to Subway when the existing delis are so much better. That would be like going to Pizza Hut in New Jersey.

If the affected Subways are underperforming due to non-halalness and competition from halal eateries nearby, then it makes business sense to do this. Subway is a corporation, I'm sure some bean-counter somewhere thinks this a good business decision. The question is, will the altered stores be able to succeed?

I'm getting old, part 257: When I was in college, one of my roommates had a job at Subway in downtown Atlanta. They had a two knives they used to cut the footlongs, one for us heathen and one for the non-pork eaters. That's how the South did kosher/halal!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Debatable. Many Muslims, in the western world in particular, dont regard if the animal's concious or not an important part of halal; only that the heart is beating during slaughter so there's as little blood remaining in the meat as possible.

Right - and many Jews in the West eat Bacon - that's not Kosher.

The stipulations for Halal are very clear, as with Kosher, and it is VERY clear that the animal is to be slaughtered cleanly and quickly, and to be concious. There has been uproar across Europe about this - on both sides.

Saying "oh, the animal only has to have it's heart beating" is cobblers of the highest order, as that is a requirement for any safe slaughter.

[Montmorency]

The stipulations for Halal are very clear

Here's what the Quran says about it:

He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah .

it is VERY clear that the animal is to be slaughtered cleanly and quickly, and to be concious.

Tell me where this is found in the Quran.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Here's what the Quran says about it:





Tell me where this is found in the Quran.

It is in the Hadith, where the prophet tells a man that he should slaughter the animal cleanly, with a sharp blade, but that he should not sharpen the blade in front of the animal.

It has been 11 years since I read it, I can't remember the verse.

[HoreTore]

If there was no demand for pork then why was it there in the first place. Sometimes I really want to slap you

....why it was there in the first place? Are you freakin' serious?

The ham was there because it's Subway. Franchises(no matter what company) will always start with the regular menu. They may alter individual stores after a while if some items aren't selling.

Kinda like how my gas station down the street don't have chorizo hot dogs, while it's the main selling hot dog where I lived before. They're both Shell.

[Greyblades]

The stipulations for Halal are very clear, as with Kosher, and it is VERY clear that the animal is to be slaughtered cleanly and quickly, and to be concious. There has been uproar across Europe about this - on both sides.

Saying "oh, the animal only has to have it's heart beating" is cobblers of the highest order, as that is a requirement for any safe slaughter.

Sir, I demand you retract your accusation of cobblers this instant.

I take the view that halal like Kosher was the method of keeping people from eating food that would make them sick in an arid enviroment, be it from disease or parasites. "Slaughter a cow in the way of Dhabīḥah and the meat wont give you the shits" etc. Regardless of the reasons the quaran forbids the consumption of blood unless desperate:

He hath forbidden you only carrion, and blood, and swineflesh, and that which has been immolated to (the name of) any other than God. But he who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. Lo! God is Forgiving, Merciful. Quran 2:173

When you remove the ritual parts of the Dhabīḥah process (which might as well be for show for all the difference it makes to the composition of hala meat) you get a method of slaughter that maximises blood loss which has the nice side effect of lowering the chance blood based diseases would remain in the meat.

The animal's conciousness makes little difference in remaining blood quantity, the controversy with stunning is that the bolt gun method used in a lot of slaughterhouses has a habit of accidentilly killing the animal early and stopping the heart before it is fully drained of blood. This doesnt exactly engender it with the muslim community as consuming blood is forbidden, hence why a lot of muslims prefer conciousness during slaughter to make sure that doesnt happen.

[Kadagar_AV]

******* barbarians.