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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    There's a typical misconception in your logic, PVC. Most of the Iraqi civilians killed in the war were killed by IEDs or sectarian kill squads. While collateral damage from US ordinance did happen, it was far more common for AQI or some small-time sectarian group to indiscriminately lay waste to neighborhoods and blame it on us. We had no real grassroots propaganda tools over there, no way to counter that sort of message other than by patrolling the streets. The people we were able to work with on a daily basis tended to understand our role and our limits, but there was very little we could do to control the message in areas where we weren't operating in. Our very presence gave ammo to the bad guys, and it would have taken a lot more than any one country is capable of giving to pacify it the way you describe.
    No, I get that the US wasn't killing Iraqi's, and I get that you guys had a horrid time of it, I really do. However, what the Iraqi's did not see was Americans dying FOR them, and that's why you lacked the "grass roots" support you needed, and that was why it was a waste of your time.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    In this day and age, no one will ever commit to a 25 year occupation, especially one that requires deaths of soldiers as you describe. To be honest, I don't quite understand why you seem to paint modern conflicts as "war without the war". Just because it looks bad that we are able to replace human deaths with drones and bombs doesn't mean we should switch gears and start throwing young men into the meat grinder.
    From Vietnam onwards US military actions have been characterised by a lack of genuine operational commitment, this has led to quite a few dead Americans, lots wasted money and no successes other than Desert Storm.

    One can only conclude that when the world's only Super Power cannot win even a minor war that something it wrong at the strategic level.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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