ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

[HoreTore]

The changes in diet, and gut-size, and muscle-protein receptor genetics, were well-underway by the time the hominid brain became human-like 200-100K years ago.

I take it you do not subscribe to the notion of a "great leap forward"? That's fine. The reason why I referred to that theory is that AFAIK this is the dominant of the two theories currently.

[Husar]

I take it you do not subscribe to the notion of a "great leap forward"? That's fine. The reason why I referred to that theory is that AFAIK this is the dominant of the two theories currently.

A great leap forward? 50k years ago?
Wasn't that when god created Adam and Eve?

And no Kadagar, I have no idea what intelligences are, how many of them are scientifically proven to exist in a given framework of didtinguishable differences or how well that corresponds to reality. Given that HoreTore has posted several links to debunk most of what you say, I assume it would be a waste of time to read your debunked sources now, had you bothered to link to all of them.
And of course some people require more effort, a good first effort would be to stop ignoring or treating them like outcasts in very subtle ways.

[HoreTore]

A great leap forward? 50k years ago?
Wasn't that when god created Adam and Eve?

According to my sources, God created Adam and Steve around that time.

[Kadagar_AV]

And no Kadagar, I have no idea what intelligences are, how many of them are scientifically proven to exist in a given framework of didtinguishable differences or how well that corresponds to reality.

Well, then it might be time you got schooled, no? May I suggest you start up with Gardner's studies on intelligence. That is basically the framework the scientific society use as of today

Given that HoreTore has posted several links to debunk most of what you say, I assume it would be a waste of time to read your debunked sources now, had you bothered to link to all of them.

Given that HT is a flaming communist with often weak concepts of reality, I wouldn't lean on his contributions all too much.

I already hinted you at the Minnesota transracial adoption study... You couldn't just highlight and google it? There are plenty more examples, let me know if you want to be get informed :)

And of course some people require more effort, a good first effort would be to stop ignoring or treating them like outcasts in very subtle ways.

Oh wow...

You basically say that them blacks sure might take more effort to include in modern western society, but if we just look the other way we won't see a problem?

[Husar]

Well, then it might be time you got schooled, no? May I suggest you start up with Gardner's studies on intelligence. That is basically the framework the scientific society use as of today

Most certainly not, I don't trust Gardner or anyone who studies intelligence.

Given that HT is a flaming communist with often weak concepts of reality, I wouldn't lean on his contributions all too much.

I already hinted you at the Minnesota transracial adoption study... You couldn't just highlight and google it? There are plenty more examples, let me know if you want to be get informed :)

Mionnesota is in the south of the USA, you yourself keep saying how horrible these people are, why should I trust them?
Somewhere around 20 years ago (give or take two hundred years) they still held blacks as slaves there.

Oh wow...

You basically say that them blacks sure might take more effort to include in modern western society, but if we just look the other way we won't see a problem?

No, not what I said. I'm sure you can read better than that...

[drone]

Mionnesota is in the south of the USA, you yourself keep saying how horrible these people are, why should I trust them?
Somewhere around 20 years ago (give or take two hundred years) they still held blacks as slaves there.

And they say Americans don't know geography...

[Kadagar_AV]

Most certainly not, I don't trust Gardner or anyone who studies intelligence.

Well then it's hard to help you.

If humanitys best effort just isn't good enough for you, I really don't know what to bring to the table.

Mionnesota is in the south of the USA

Dude. No.

you yourself keep saying how horrible these people are, why should I trust them?

I think USAnian foreign politics is often pure evil. That has little to nothing to do with the proud people of Minnesota. Heck, I openly grant they made good studies on racial inequality.

Somewhere around 20 years ago (give or take two hundred years) they still held blacks as slaves there.

Yeah... Let's just say this wasn't the peak of your argumentation ability. Shall we?

[Husar]

And they say Americans don't know geography...

Indeed, that was not excusable, and yes, my knowledge of US geography is not that great concerning some states.
I should have just checked a map, but hey, I'm a monkey, what can I say....

Well then it's hard to help you.

If humanitys best effort just isn't good enough for you, I really don't know what to bring to the table.

I think USAnian foreign politics is often pure evil. That has little to nothing to do with the proud people of Winnesota. Heck, I openly grant they made good studies on racial inequality.

Yeah... Let's just say this wasn't the peak of your argumentation ability. Shall we?

After that geography blunder I will just give up, I'm too stupid to argue about this, sorry.
So what do you propose we do about the issue then, now that I concede that the average IQ of Africans has to be almost as low as mine?

[Kadagar_AV]

Indeed, that was not excusable, and yes, my knowledge of US geography is not that great concerning some states.
I should have just checked a map, but hey, I'm a monkey, what can I say....



After that geography blunder I will just give up, I'm too stupid to argue about this, sorry.
So what do you propose we do about the issue then, now that I concede that the average IQ of Africans has to be almost as low as mine?

Awww.... C'mon Husar, I still love you :)

As to what to do about it...

You have to bear in mind that I am Swedish... We are right now more or less exchanging our gene-stock with African ones. I have a problem with people who think you can just toss hundreds of thousands of people from less orderly ethnicities in, without a grasp of the concept that it might lead to problems.

The only thing I ask for is that the Africans we already have should be assimilated into our modern society before we take on more.

So yeah, quite a leap away from jumping up and down doing Sieg Heils.

[Tuuvi]

As culture ties in tightly with "environment", it's rather obvious that ethnicities sharing both genetic and cultural traits will eventually show differences compared to other ethnicities. In the time span of tens of thousands of years, at the minimum, this is an absolute fact.

Throughout human history people have been migrating to new lands, conducting long distance trade, and going to war with each other, inter-breeding and spreading their genes as they go. As a result there are not sharp genetic distinctions between different races.

Culture and ethnicity are not static. Culture evolves over time and ethnic identity is subject to change, so it is unlikely that culture could have influenced one group to evolve differently from another.

I googled the Minnesota transracial adoption study and according to Wikipedia, the authors of the study didn't consider the results to support a genetic or an environmental explanation for racial IQ differences, because there were too many confounding factors. The study can be interpreted as supporting a genetic explanation but that's not the only possible interpretation, the results weren't so clear cut.

[Kadagar_AV]

Throughout human history people have been migrating to new lands, conducting long distance trade, and going to war with each other, inter-breeding and spreading their genes as they go. As a result there are not sharp genetic distinctions between different races.

Are. You. On. Drugs.

You basically claim there are no asian or black people. This is preposterous. Of course people breed across "the lines", but when you start to count people in the number of millions you can easily see ethnical differences.

Culture and ethnicity are not static. Culture evolves over time and ethnic identity is subject to change, so it is unlikely that culture could have influenced one group to evolve differently from another.

Pretty much all of modern science would disagree with that. You basically say that culture does not impact on the evolutionary scale.

This. Is. Stupid.

Go find your school teacher and beat him up for doing a bad job.

googled the Minnesota transracial adoption study and according to Wikipedia, the authors of the study didn't consider the results to support a genetic or an environmental explanation for racial IQ differences, because there were too many confounding factors.

Well then read the actual report. East Asians did well, black people did not.

"Confounding factors" is a PC way of saying "let's not touch this".

As soon as you start to read data, instead of having some filter on how you should read data, the realization will probably be shocking to you.

The study can be interpreted as supporting a genetic explanation but that's not the only possible interpretation, the results weren't so clear cut.

You can interpret that black people do worse on modern intelligence tests in any and every way you want. Bottom line will still be that they do worse on intelligence tests.

You can make any excuses for it that you want, but it really doesn't matter, as they will still show the results they do.

[Montmorency]

You basically claim there are no asian or black people. This is preposterous.

Holy guys, he's FINALLY got the point, only to deny it outright without a second thought.

I declare you a member of the Fragony race, Kad.

[Tuuvi]

Are. You. On. Drugs.

You basically claim there are no asian or black people. This is preposterous. Of course people breed across "the lines", but when you start to count people in the number of millions you can easily see ethnical differences.

Some people are born in Asia and there are people with dark skin and black coiled hair. But due to the gene flow between these different populations there is not much of a genetic distinction separating them from each other. Black skin and epicanthic folds are just that, black skin and epicanthic folds. They don't say very much about the rest of the Black or Asian genome.

Pretty much all of modern science would disagree with that. You basically say that culture does not impact on the evolutionary scale.

This is exactly what I was saying. Do you have a modern scientific source that explains how culture impacts human evolution? I have a hard time seeing how something that is in a state of flux could influence the course of evolution in a short amount of time. (tens of thousands of years is not a long time time at all on an evolutionary scale). Show me a credible source (and I mean credible, not some pseudo-scientific bullshit from a non-peer reviewed open-access journal) and I will admit I was wrong and cede the point.

Well then read the actual report. East Asians did well, black people did not.

"Confounding factors" is a PC way of saying "let's not touch this".

As soon as you start to read data, instead of having some filter on how you should read data, the realization will probably be shocking to you.

You can interpret that black people do worse on modern intelligence tests in any and every way you want. Bottom line will still be that they do worse on intelligence tests.

You can make any excuses for it that you want, but it really doesn't matter, as they will still show the results they do.

But WHY. Why do Black people do worse on intelligence tests? Is it primarily because of environment or is their a genetic factor as well? I thought that's what the Minnesota study was trying to find out. I did not deny that the Black children in the study scored worse than the White and Asian children. But if several researchers, including the authors of the study, did not find the results of the study to support the existence of a genetic cause for lower Black IQ's, than the Minnesota study does not support your claim for innate racial differences in intelligence as much as you think. I'm sorry but I trust scientists' ability to interpret data more than I do yours.

[HoreTore]

I already hinted you at the Minnesota transracial adoption study... You couldn't just highlight and google it? There are plenty more examples, let me know if you want to be get informed :)

No need to do that, when that study was among the ones I linked to in my above post.

Naturally, it does not support your point.

Also this.