I'll wait.
I'll wait.
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I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
What is the voter ID you are referring to, and how is it used?
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If I remember the argument correctly from when it was brought up on here a long time ago by MajorRobertDump, you have to pay to obtain said ID.
Since 'apparently' only black and ethnic minorities are poor, so cannot afford the ID and has issues with 'the man', it would distort the voting numbers significantly towards the Republicans, hence Democrat opposition to such reform.
Over in the UK, there are multiple versions of ID which can be used, such as driving license, passport, NUS Student card, Benefit/Welfare ID (Social Security in US?), etc. There isn't too much issue since people have these or are in access of receiving these.
I believe Birth Certificate and recent bill/bank statement via post for proof of Address combination is possible too...
Last edited by Beskar; 10-21-2014 at 17:31.
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Did a quick google and the main argument seems to be that black people/minorities will be put off from getting these voter ID's because of the cost of going to collect them, and also minorities are more apathetic and less likely to bother collecting them. So Voter ID is seen as a needless obstacle to discourage minorities from voting.
I would doubt that Voter ID was truly intended for this purpose, however I suppose is seems possible that some small degree of minority disenfranchisement could be one of its consequences.
When the racial element to the debate is so tangential, it seems like a poor argument to make. I suppose this is down to the 'usual suspects' who like to race bait, and view everything purely through the term of racial struggle.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
like Rhyfelwyr I just got back from googling it.
I think the Racial aspect is a bit tenuous however I can see the argument it is an attempt to disenfranchise the poor - if they really wanted to limit voter fraud with an ID they should make it free - anything else is a bar to poor voters since there is now cost involved with voting.
It's racist because it's a fact that black people if implemented will have less sway on politics. They are more poor and more politically apathetic.
You want to live on in a la-la-land ignoring racial issues?
You need a racist to tell you why it's racist?
EDIT: Seems like a good law though, the more politically non-apathetic people who vote the more informed the vote will be.
Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 10-21-2014 at 17:46.
Can anyone explain why it is necessary to add bureaucracy and red tape as well as costs to elections when it only serves to discorage the one or two cases of voter fraud while it will cost the nation as a whole a whole lot of money? when was the last time a president won with one or two votes ahead? Wouldn't it make more sense to switch to a system with multiple (as in, more than two) viable parties, more compromise and more getting things done?
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We wish, but then the Democrats and Republicans wouldnt be able to have a stranglehold on politics. A third party is dangerous to the establishment, and thus will never be implemented.
As for OP's question, the answer has already been said: it adds more hoops to jump through for people who are not determined (or have the financial means) to vote. Whether or not the less-interested should be allowed to vote is out of the question, a fundamental right of this society is a right to vote and that should not be impeded by anything. If they elect a bad leader, then they deserve a bad leader.
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
How much does a voter ID cost?
Even if its cost is significant, it's a class not a racial issue. Regardless of their skin colour, only the poor people will have difficulties in obtaining it.
Now, the reason about why the black people have more chances to be poor might be racial or more accurately historical.
Strike is right with his insinuation that voter ID's are not really racist. The idea of identifying yourself as a citizen able to vote is actually a no brainer if you want to have a representative democracy that is not stacked with fake votes (it has happened in the US before, it could happen now).
The problem, which Strike is probably aware of is that the implementation is the problematic part. Republicans have been known to write laws that deny a drivers license to be used as identification. Only a third (don't quote me on that) of US citizens have an official passport from the Federal government, so what else is there for a citizen to prove himself with?
Seems less racist and more classist, either way smacks of election rigging in the vein of gerrymandering.
Last edited by Greyblades; 10-21-2014 at 19:03.
Classist or racist, either way it works for the Republicans. They see the changing demographics, the only way for them to keep ahead while still pushing their current bat-crazy agenda is to reduce the number of votes from African-Americans, Hispanics, and young people. Any obstacle will accomplish this to a degree.
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"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
Where's Lemur when you need him?Strike is right with his insinuation that voter ID's are not really racist. The idea of identifying yourself as a citizen able to vote is actually a no brainer if you want to have a representative democracy that is not stacked with fake votes (it has happened in the US before, it could happen now).
Really makes no sense. If the Republicans wanted to, they could easily capture the Hispanic vote.![]()
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Many Hispanics are socially conservative and deeply invested in the catholic church. Am I wrong in saying that?
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If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat
"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
You can always count on the conservative small-government peeps to introduce a ton of unnecessary and unwieldy bureaucracy.
While you should of course be able to identify yourself when voting, this can be solved by simply using a drivers license or credit card. No need to introduce yet another bungled piece of nonsense.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Because everyone knows black and Hispanic people don't have any money, so its like a poll tax. But gun permits can cost $1000 because that type of racism is OK.
I don't care about this issue. I want to destroy Federal bureaucracy, adding another layer doesn't help us with the controlled collapse of government.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-22-2014 at 00:07.
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@ people talking about it being a class issue, not a race issue... As if race had nothing to do with class.
I don't mean I WANT it to be... I just say that the figures more or less stare you nakedly in the face
Hell YES it's racist. It's also a fact that the US has failed to include black people in society, much like, oh well, all enlightened societies have failed at it, at large.
It's also a good idea to keep completely politically apathetic people from voting. It's to these extremes you have to go in a multicultural society, to have any hope of it actually working.
Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 10-22-2014 at 00:11.
Geez GC, I don't think you will quite get away with whiffing me off as "just wrong".
Race is a factor in this game. You might not like it, heck, I don't like it. But cold hard facts kind of stare us in the face here.
Your notion of green men from Mars is just preposterous, let's keep this discussion on Planet Earth with all of it's implicit problems, shall we?
Again: Race matters in this as black people in the USA tend to be more on the poor side. They also tend to be more leaning towards not thinking democracy is important enough to bother getting a voter ID for (as to why is a whole other discussion, right now we ONLY focus on the fact that this is how it is - without questioning why).
These facts combined means that the idea of voter ID is, and is, and is racist.
Black people WILL be more alienated from democracy by this law.
You don't have to agree that it is right. You don't have to think it's how it should be.
You just have to accept that it is what it is.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
afaik, the states pushing for stricter voter ID:s are mostly the ones that had Jim Crow laws in the past, so it has a poor history.
And you also have a disproponate laws. An UK law that hits 95% of all Sikhs and 10% of all Brits are probably racist and almost certainly aimed, even if most people affected aren't Sikhs.
I'm curious why photo ID isn't baseline in the US though. Here not having a photo ID equals living off the grid.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
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The DMV is a pain in the ass? They're responsible for State Non-Driver's Photo ID as well as Driver's Licenses.![]()
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Let's say some people decide to follow pre-Roman Celtic religion, or decide that they'd like to own slaves. Merely that 100% of them would fall foul of the bans on human sacrifice doesn't mean that this law is biased against them, merely that their practices are against modern society.
If groups want to have knives under the beds of their children due to their culture a ban doesn't make this aimed against them.
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An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
I agree on the latest part, I have been rather obsessive. Just had a relative (cousin) assault raped by a black person.
To answer the rest, if it's racially motivated has little to nothing to do with if it's racist or not. A law can in effect be racist regardless of the motivation of the law.
You can make laws forbidding people to dress as tents, because people don't like tents. The EFFECT of the law would still be racial though, as it would target arabic women.
Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 10-23-2014 at 00:36.
I guess I am saying that there is a correlation between race and class. Can't we just agree it affects both lines of thinking?
About my relative, wasn't looking for an excuse, I just state why I lately have upped my dislike of the multicultural experiment. You are right though, and thanks for telling me.
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