Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

  1. #1

    Default USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    The end times must be upon us.
    The fall of the Berlin Wall almost made a believer of me, this development simply nails it:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...smorningdigest

    In the context of US politics, I really have a hard time understanding this.
    The move is reasonable, rational and long overdue; exactly the sort of thing the American political scene seems to avoid like the plague.
    If the Pope indeed had a hand in engineering this event, he has my vote for sainthood; miracle? (check)!
    Ja-mata TosaInu

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  2. #2
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,297

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    I rarely find myself in full agreement with an Obama administration policy initiative. He said that after 5 decades of something that had not generated change, it was time to do something else. I have to agree.

    There will be, I predict, an easing of some of the sanctions as well.

    There will be backlash, particularly in Florida, that will cost the DEMs votes. But the Cuban-American bloc is starting to be outvoted even in Florida by the Puerto Rican and Central American descent groups. Florida will likely go GOP next general election, but the backlash will fade after that.

    I have long believed that interaction is far more likely to tear apart the Castro regime than was an embargo.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  3. #3
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I rarely find myself in full agreement with an Obama administration policy initiative. He said that after 5 decades of something that had not generated change, it was time to do something else.
    Do you mean he lifted the Cuban embargo to allow the next one (i.e. the Russian) to last five decades?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  4. #4
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    This might get complicated.

  5. #5
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,297

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Do you mean he lifted the Cuban embargo to allow the next one (i.e. the Russian) to last five decades?
    Unlikely. It is far easier to ignore the economic value of a nation smaller than Florida whose primary export is fine tobacco than it is to ignore a G-10 sized economy (at least this week) whose primary export is one of the most valued commodities in modern economics.

    On the other hand, the sanctions imposed on Russia -- coupled with the drop in fossil fuel consumption -- seems to have had a for more direct impact on the Russian economy.

    Cuba had crap before our embargo with their sugar industry undercut and any number of other sun-belt countries willing to supply party cities. We didn't change that equation much for them at all.

    The current kerfluffle with the Russians will not last 5 decades. We will hem and haw for a while yet, but eventually we will "agree to disagree" about Crimea and go back to more or less normal relations.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  6. #6
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    This is good news.

    Finally Americans may be able to buy Havana Club rum and Cubans may get more internets.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  7. #7
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,223

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    But we were this close to bringing down the Castros!


    Long overdue, but I don't see a GOP-controlled Congress ending the embargo anytime soon. Rubio about had an aneurysm.
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

  8. #8
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6342348.html

    Hahaha, Mr. Rubio, have you ever heard of, say, China?
    If trade helps bad regimes stay alive, why is there no trade embargo on China?
    You'd think by the amount of trade going on between the USA and China, congress is actually supporting the Chinese regime.

    Also found this, apparently from end of September:


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  9. #9
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    I was so happy when I read about this in the news... A step forward for the US...

    it's about time, this millenium has more or less only shown the US take steps backwards... Generally into dogpiles...

    And the stench reach all the way to here

  10. #10
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,670

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Trade sanctions have a disproportionate impact on the people in the street not the leadership.

    Cuba and North Korea show that even long term sanctions do not cause regime change. North Korean leadership in fact are probably more secure without the pesky problem of open trade showing how much better the rest of the world live.

    I do wonder though if Russia talk with Cuba about putting in a nuclear missile defence shield if Cuba would be annexed... /s
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  11. #11
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alpine Subtundra
    Posts
    843

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6342348.html

    Hahaha, Mr. Rubio, have you ever heard of, say, China?
    China didn't nationalize any American business interests, like that bloodthirsty jerk, Fidel Castro did. During the Pimp Era, sugar and tobacco were allowed to happily join the world of free trade.

  12. #12
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    China didn't nationalize any American business interests, like that bloodthirsty jerk, Fidel Castro did. During the Pimp Era, sugar and tobacco were allowed to happily join the world of free trade.
    People shouldn't have possessions in countries other than their own anyway, it's a modern form of colonialism.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  13. #13
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    But we were this close to bringing down the Castros!
    Correction: we have been these fifty years this close...
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  14. #14
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,670

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    People shouldn't have possessions in countries other than their own anyway, it's a modern form of colonialism.
    Best way to break myopic nationalism is to have mutual foreign interests.

    The new MAD is mutual assured debt. Just look at what is/will happen as Russia trips over, it will send shockwaves through the world stock markets and will either goes a big worldwide down turn or others will see it as an opportunity and markets will go up.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  15. #15
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    7,588

    Default Re: USA/Cuba Normalize Relations

    Good move, regardless of the motivations. The research I've done on this over the years seemed to indicate that the Castros benefitted somewhat (and the expat community in Florida hugely) from the embargo, due to limited access to the global currency markets.

    As others have said, this embargo was disproportionately hurting the wider population, not the leadership. Glad to see it going. I think the GOP will bluster a lot but in the end not do much.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO