Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Swedish international politics take another blow...

  1. #1
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Swedish international politics take another blow...

    *RANT*

    Ok, so we have a new Socialistic government since about half a year... They have up to now, when it comes to international politics managed to piss off Israel... and the Arabic world at large...

    That must surely be some kind of world first?

    Politics used to be about making friends, or having the enemy of your enemy as friendly... But nah, we disregard that and more or less go out in the world with our middle finger raised high...

    Why? As we are "Gutmensch", as Frags would say. It basically means we KNOW we have the right on our side, as we only mean well from our perspective, so anything else would just simply be wrong.



    Sure our foreign minister call Saudi Arabia "medieval", BUT SHE IS RIGHT. So because she is right, it's of course OK that many arab countries withdraws their ambassadors from Sweden, and that the oil prices sky rocket.

    And sure we are like the first to acknowledge Palestine as a nation, they are, who cares if the Jews get pissed off?



    My oh my... 3½ years to go... Unless a revolution or something...




    Who needs international politics based on facts and seeing what the real world is, when you can be ideologically "right"?


  2. #2

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Sure our foreign minister call Saudi Arabia "medieval", BUT SHE IS RIGHT. So because she is right, it's of course OK that many arab countries withdraws their ambassadors from Sweden, and that the oil prices sky rocket.
    Perhaps the US or Norwegian governments have something to do with it?
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  3. #3
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Perhaps the US or Norwegian governments have something to do with it?
    You mean they also have oil? Sure, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we are waving our middle finger around... By this rate Norway will be the only country to do business with soon.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Just always keep in mind that the grandstanding of politicians should not be taken at face value. Grandstanding is their job, and connections run deep.

    For example, what's the "sense" in China or Turkey or whatever publicly insulting European governments over museums, or conferences, or other projects they apparently have no business or pertinence with?

    These sorts of messages can have very complex underpinnings with both national and international outlooks.

    Or, yeah, they could just be dumb. On the other hand, it's more useful to overestimate politicians by assuming they have some calculations behind many of their actions, then to underestimate by just assuming they're fools.

    In the end, we should go beyond both and see that politicians, like anyone else, can take gambles that seem well-founded, but may not pay off for a number of reasons.

    But keep the above in mind. Even the Tea Party (above municipal level) isn't just doing the things they do because 'they feel like it'.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  5. #5
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Just always keep in mind that the grandstanding of politicians should not be taken at face value. Grandstanding is their job, and connections run deep.

    For example, what's the "sense" in China or Turkey or whatever publicly insulting European governments over museums, or conferences, or other projects they apparently have no business or pertinence with?

    These sorts of messages can have very complex underpinnings with both national and international outlooks.

    Or, yeah, they could just be dumb. On the other hand, it's more useful to overestimate politicians by assuming they have some calculations behind many of their actions, then to underestimate by just assuming they're fools.

    In the end, we should go beyond both and see that politicians, like anyone else, can take gambles that seem well-founded, but may not pay off for a number of reasons.

    But keep the above in mind. Even the Tea Party (above municipal level) isn't just doing the things they do because 'they feel like it'.
    Well... Ambassadors are leaving the country, we are yelled at from all over, and the majority population think this was an effin stupid move... I WISH to think that the socialistic government have some sort of "grand scheme", but in this case they just lack sensitivity to other cultures.

    It's like: "Who needs other cultures when they are WRONG".


    You can only yell and point your finger at so many people, before the other kids don't want to play with you on the school yard.

  6. #6
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Sweden is the country ruled by the Stephord Wives. Swedes aren't crazy and they know that the Stephord wives are ruining everything. Sweden is still eally nice place. It still is a really nice place but not in the cities. Fellow orger Swedish-Fish lashed out really hard at me but he moved to America, he was furious when he learned how things really are, and how unreasonable politicians are. In a pm conversation he said he thought I was just a racist and that he simply didn't know how bad it is. No offence taken.

    @Swedish leftists, got something to prove? Nice testlab you have there
    Last edited by Fragony; 03-19-2015 at 06:10.

  7. #7
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,902

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Well... Ambassadors are leaving the country, we are yelled at from all over, and the majority population think this was an effin stupid move... I WISH to think that the socialistic government have some sort of "grand scheme", but in this case they just lack sensitivity to other cultures.

    It's like: "Who needs other cultures when they are WRONG".


    You can only yell and point your finger at so many people, before the other kids don't want to play with you on the school yard.
    The plan is to bring those issues up on the international agenda, even if it pisses some nations off. Netanyahu did just declare the two state solution dead (and somehow I don't think that was to make Palestinians Israeli citizens) and the Islamic world are progressing very, very slowly on human rights issues.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  8. #8
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Why would a fucked country like Sweden have the right on not shutting the fuck when it comes to international policies of countries that don't beg to be overrun by hostiles.

  9. #9
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    She's right on both issues.
    Granted, it's commonplace to stay quite on such things to preserve trade relations with nasty people who feel they have a god-given right to opress others and who are quite sensitive (not to say, insecure) about it. But why, really? It's not as if Sweden is the only country that needs diplomatic cooperation with other countries. The Arab countries have need of the same, and maybe it's time they learn to suck it up.

    Same applies to Israel. Depriving millions of people of international recognition, a functioning state and the territory they would need to establish one is not acceptable behaviour. A government which categorically rules out a Palestinian state and actively tries to prevent one deserves no diplomatic consideration for its point of view.

  10. #10
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    3,818

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    He lied. I knew he lied and he knew I lied. That was diplomacy.
    Last edited by rvg; 03-19-2015 at 14:54.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  11. #11
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    She's right on both issues.
    Granted, it's commonplace to stay quite on such things to preserve trade relations with nasty people who feel they have a god-given right to opress others and who are quite sensitive (not to say, insecure) about it. But why, really? It's not as if Sweden is the only country that needs diplomatic cooperation with other countries. The Arab countries have need of the same, and maybe it's time they learn to suck it up.

    Same applies to Israel. Depriving millions of people of international recognition, a functioning state and the territory they would need to establish one is not acceptable behaviour. A government which categorically rules out a Palestinian state and actively tries to prevent one deserves no diplomatic consideration for its point of view.
    What makes you think Palestinans want a state, it's the worst thing that could ever happen to them. They will become a target of much more radical forces.

  12. #12
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    What makes you think Palestinans want a state,
    In no particular order:

    - Common sense
    - Statements by their politicians
    - Their request to be recognised as a state by the UN general assembly
    - Opinion polls in Gaza and the west bank, indicating that the population approves of this move

  13. #13
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    13,477

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    The plan is to bring those issues up on the international agenda, even if it pisses some nations off. Netanyahu did just declare the two state solution dead (and somehow I don't think that was to make Palestinians Israeli citizens) and the Islamic world are progressing very, very slowly on human rights issues.
    To which the response is "oh no, a country like Sweden think's we're nasty".

    As far as I'm aware Sweden exports nothing the Saudis or Israelis want, unless you're a Leftist Israeli wanting an IKEA sofa.

    So Kad has a point - all this has done is made things harder for Swedes, which is the worst possible outsome for any government - to disadvantage it's own people.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

    Member thankful for this post:



  14. #14
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    If Sweden didn't export anything of value to Israel or Saudi Arabia, that would be even more reason against sugar coating their words.

    AFAIK Sweden had a fairly significant arms deal with Saudi Arabia going on, that they decided to cancel in the aftermath of this diplomatic row (a word I'm using generously here; recalling your ambassador "for consultation" doesn't mean much in the end). The deal was apparently controversial in Sweden and probably would have been cancelled anyway, so I'm guessing that the actual damage is small.

    Member thankful for this post:



  15. #15
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    In no particular order:

    - Common sense
    - Statements by their politicians
    - Their request to be recognised as a state by the UN general assembly
    - Opinion polls in Gaza and the west bank, indicating that the population approves of this move
    It doesn't matter what ordinary Palestinians want, they are a playball in a ideological conflict between much bigger powers. That really sucks for them and I honestly feel sorry for them, but we can't help them. The second a Palestinian staye becomes reality it will become a target itselve, there are much more radical powers than Hamas to consider. Things can't be fixed at the moment, it will only make things worse, more innocent people will die.
    Last edited by Fragony; 03-19-2015 at 19:33.

  16. #16
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Saudi Arabia, as an example, today decided to not allow further business visas from Sweden...

    So what PVC says is rather spot on, the government should not actively work to make it HARDER for Swedes to do business around the world.

    The Saudi weapons deal we just decided to not renew was what started this whole thing... Our foreign ministers complete lack of cultural sensitivity was what had this whole thing explode in our faces...



    3½ years to go with a socialist government... 3½ years to go... I wonder how much of Sweden will remain afterwards, as todays swedish socialists are all about feminism, everyones equal value, yadda yadda empty words...

    I seriously start to think nothing short of a revolution will be able to save this nation. The media is even self admittedly campaigning for multiculturalist chaos these days, so the random Joe worker really has very little idea with what is actually going on... But even he slowly start to see that his grandmother in a retirement home is being mistreated, his son comes home from school without his iphone and with very little knowledge learnt, his salary no longer covers what would have been natural before...



    I am seriously worried about Sweden, enough to having had me actively start working politically. The nation needs saving, but I am afraid it's already to late :(

  17. #17
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,902

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Why would a fucked country like Sweden have the right on not shutting the fuck when it comes to international policies of countries that don't beg to be overrun by hostiles.


    You have no idea about the guest workers on those countries do you? UAE is about 80% of the population guest workers, Saudi Arabia is way lower with its 30%. UAE is one of the few countries were the locals could lose to the immigrants in the case of a revolution. A lot of the citizens are also rich arrogant douche bags that are working hard to piss off those immigrant workers by denying them any rights...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Saudi Arabia, as an example, today decided to not allow further business visas from Sweden...

    So what PVC says is rather spot on, the government should not actively work to make it HARDER for Swedes to do business around the world.

    The Saudi weapons deal we just decided to not renew was what started this whole thing... Our foreign ministers complete lack of cultural sensitivity was what had this whole thing explode in our faces... :(
    It is an active to return back to older policies that has been tradition before. Sweden aren't only the nice guy who's friend with everyone, he's also the annoying concious guy that brings up those topics that others rather forgot about. In Palme's time it was the USA that called back their ambassador (the Vietnam war). It's based on the principle that evil wins if good guys do nothing and that Sweden can afford to be the front runners on those issues (unlike greater powers with less stable reputation).
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  18. #18
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post


    You have no idea about the guest workers on those countries do you? UAE is about 80% of the population guest workers, Saudi Arabia is way lower with its 30%. UAE is one of the few countries were the locals could lose to the immigrants in the case of a revolution. A lot of the citizens are also rich arrogant douche bags that are working hard to piss off those immigrant workers by denying them any rights...



    It is an active to return back to older policies that has been tradition before. Sweden aren't only the nice guy who's friend with everyone, he's also the annoying concious guy that brings up those topics that others rather forgot about. In Palme's time it was the USA that called back their ambassador (the Vietnam war). It's based on the principle that evil wins if good guys do nothing and that Sweden can afford to be the front runners on those issues (unlike greater powers with less stable reputation).
    Can we, though?

    From having a school system that ranked top 3 in the world, we are now sharing position with like Ecuador or something... Our elderly are soaking in their own urine at the homes for elderly, most people in their 20's have to live with their parents as we simply don't have enough homes, our train system is in shambles... I can go on all day...

    Are we even living in the same country mate? It doesn't seem that way when I read your thoughts on this subject...

  19. #19
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,223

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  20. #20
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    Oh come on... Make your own argument.

    Forcing people to read a stupid comic without even stating what your idea is - is just plain rude to your readers intellect.



    So... Did you have a point?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Do you not understand how jokes work? Seriously? Or, can't you tell by the fact that it's a Countryball comic?

    At any rate, it's sympathetic to your position.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  22. #22
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    At any rate, if I were into comics right now I would read them.

    If I wanted comics though, I wouldn't have this as a forum. I have noticed that interesting people hang here... That's why I am on this section, and that is why I dislike when people don't present their OWN perspective.

    drones link might be good or bad, but until I hear what he has to say on the matter, I don't really care, to be honest :)

    I can send everyone here a truckload of third party sources... But what's the point, people know how to google...

    So again: I am here to read other peoples thoughts... If they just link, I find it a waste of my time to even read it, as I could have done the same search myself...

    What I can't do is google to have drone explain his thoughts... So better to hang here, and listen him out, as he seems like an awesome guy :)
    Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 03-20-2015 at 04:29.

  23. #23
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,990

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    From having a school system that ranked top 3 in the world, we are now sharing position with like Ecuador or something... Our elderly are soaking in their own urine at the homes for elderly, most people in their 20's have to live with their parents as we simply don't have enough homes, our train system is in shambles... I can go on all day...
    Are you sure you are still talking about Sweden and not about Ukraine?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  24. #24
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Are you sure you are still talking about Sweden and not about Ukraine?
    Fairly sure... But I really can't be trusted past 10pm...

    Member thankful for this post:



  25. #25
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Helsinki,Finland
    Posts
    9,546

    Default Re: Swedish international politics take another blow...

    These bloody germanic immigrants and their cant hold their liquer policy..
    Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-21-2015 at 01:35.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

    Member thankful for this post:

    Hax 


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO