POTUS Election thread

[Hooahguy]

Okay, so that's the problem with the Netherlands then. Trump said he would hesitate before defending the Baltic states, who are striving to meet the defense spending goal (one already meets that goal and the other two are on the path to meet it by 2020). I would say they are working hard to be good members of the alliance. Should they be able to count on a reliable America to help defend them in their time of need? With what Trump is saying I think not.

[Fragony]

Okay, so that's the problem with the Netherlands then. Trump said he would hesitate before defending the Baltic states, who are striving to meet the defense spending goal (one already meets that goal and the other two are on the path to meet it by 2020). I would say they are working hard to be good members of the alliance. Should they be able to count on a reliable America to help defend them in their time of need? With what Trump is saying I think not.

All the better if we can't rely on America imo, the Dutch army is so short of supplies that they can't do anything. There is is plenty of really high-tech stuff but something as simple as bullets just aren't in stock. Almost all Nato countries are heavily underfunded and pretty much useless, deserves at least a raised eyebrow from those who keep their promises. With the money we give to leftist hobby's of NGO's we could easily meet Nato's standards. Less private jets and dancing people on arival of course but NGO's officials will get overi it. A drug should be developed that makes leftists see dancing black tribes and feel really good about themselve.Same for eurocrats, there got to be a way to make them think they are constantly shaking hands.

Nah, Trump for prez

[Hooahguy]

We aren't talking about the Dutch army though. Russia has no plans (that we know of) to invade the Netherlands any time soon. What Russia might do though is invade the Baltics should NATO fall apart. The Baltic states cannot defend their land all by themselves, they are tiny and have no mountains or other natural boundaries to help them defend themselves. Recently the Rand Corp did a war game study and they found that even with a full strength military, the Baltic states have at most 60 hours to withstand a full on Russian invasion. The Baltic states have put a lot of money into their armies but they are small. No real tank force to speak of because they can't afford it even as they increase military spending. They need NATO.

Now while personally I think it was a mistake to add the Baltics to NATO for the above reasons (and a few more), they are in the alliance now and we can't change that or kick them out.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Interesting that you say that Trump is pretty harmless for Europe, especially when he would basically wreck NATO.

He wrote "The Art of the Deal" not "Lafayette Go Eff Yourself."

What he wants is 1) votes from people who are tired of us paying for/bleeding most on the War on Terror, and 2) NATO to up its Funding for and troops deployed to the various NATO involved efforts including the anti- ISIL/ISIS/DASH/Whatever it is this week.

Threatening to wad it up and throw it away is his opening bargaining stance.

[Strike For The South]

Y'all seriously need to learn what "staking out a position" is. Read the art of the deal.

there are more Palestinian flags at the dnc than American ones. Why should any American vote democratic?

[Husar]

Yes, just like "Making America Great again", just wait for the final compromise...

[Fragony]

As I see it Trump is really apolitical, and has very little patience with those who are not. Especially now that the truly scary Hillary, false, fake, backed and funded by really dubious people, is the democrat's choice I really hope that Trump is going to win

[Hooahguy]

He wrote "The Art of the Deal" not "Lafayette Go Eff Yourself."

What he wants is 1) votes from people who are tired of us paying for/bleeding most on the War on Terror, and 2) NATO to up its Funding for and troops deployed to the various NATO involved efforts including the anti- ISIL/ISIS/DASH/Whatever it is this week.

Threatening to wad it up and throw it away is his opening bargaining stance.

Threatening to wad it up and throw it away might work for his business deals, but international relations is a whole different ballgame that Trump doesnt have a clue what hes talking about. In the current NATO mission in Afghanistan, almost half of the forces in theater are European NATO allies or partner nations. The other half are US forces. NATO allies have lost over 1100 personnel in Afghanistan, with the Danes suffering the highest percentage of casualties of any ally, even the US. In Syria and Iraq, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, the United Kingdom (and soon the Czechs) are flying anti-ISIS missions. On the ground with advisers & trainers in Iraq preparing Iraqi & Kurdish forces, you have Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, the United Kingdom, and soon the Czechs as well. In the Libyan operation, it was NATO allies who were leading, not the US. Last I recall, the Danish actually flew more missions and dropped more ordnance than the US did. Yes, the US takes the lead in most of the NATO missions because we have the biggest military by far. But thinking that NATO allies dont do their part is just false.

Since 2014, NATO allies have agreed to halt defense cuts and now many NATO allies are in the process of rebuilding their defense budgets and forces, even the Germans (though apparently the Dutch have a ways to go). NATO is probably the most successful military alliance in history because there wasnt doubt about if allies would come to the aid of others allies when attacked. Threatening to walk because you dont get everything you want is not a recipe for a healthy alliance. Trump has said similar things about leaving the WTO which would also be disastrous.

[Husar]

As I see it Trump is really apolitical, and has very little patience with those who are not. Especially now that the truly scary Hillary, false, fake, backed and funded by really dubious people, is the democrat's choice I really hope that Trump is going to win

Did you also feel the Bern?

[Strike For The South]

NATO is probably the most successful military alliance in history because there wasnt doubt about if allies would come to the aid of others allies when attacked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War

Don't bother quoting the articles, I know what they say.

[Hooahguy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War

Don't bother quoting the articles, I know what they say.

Do you?

Article 6 of the The North Atlantic Treaty:

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

• on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

• on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

This also means that if Hawaii was attacked it wouldnt trigger Article 5.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Threatening to wad it up and throw it away might work for his business deals, but international relations is a whole different ballgame that Trump doesnt have a clue what hes talking about. In the current NATO mission in Afghanistan, almost half of the forces in theater are European NATO allies or partner nations. The other half are US forces. NATO allies have lost over 1100 personnel in Afghanistan, with the Danes suffering the highest percentage of casualties of any ally, even the US. In Syria and Iraq, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, the United Kingdom (and soon the Czechs) are flying anti-ISIS missions. On the ground with advisers & trainers in Iraq preparing Iraqi & Kurdish forces, you have Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, the United Kingdom, and soon the Czechs as well. In the Libyan operation, it was NATO allies who were leading, not the US. Last I recall, the Danish actually flew more missions and dropped more ordnance than the US did. Yes, the US takes the lead in most of the NATO missions because we have the biggest military by far. But thinking that NATO allies dont do their part is just false.

Since 2014, NATO allies have agreed to halt defense cuts and now many NATO allies are in the process of rebuilding their defense budgets and forces, even the Germans (though apparently the Dutch have a ways to go). NATO is probably the most successful military alliance in history because there wasnt doubt about if allies would come to the aid of others allies when attacked. Threatening to walk because you dont get everything you want is not a recipe for a healthy alliance. Trump has said similar things about leaving the WTO which would also be disastrous.

Preacher, meet choir.


Trump, as most folks with business backgrounds, think that diplomacy as practiced is a silly waste of time and think they CAN do better deals by using the strategies known and familiar to them.

I said that was WHAT Trump was doing, not that it was a good idea.

[Greyblades]

[Hooahguy]

Preacher, meet choir.


Trump, as most folks with business backgrounds, think that diplomacy as practiced is a silly waste of time and think they CAN do better deals by using the strategies known and familiar to them.

I said that was WHAT Trump was doing, not that it was a good idea.

Sorry, couldnt tell what your position was...

[Xiahou]

Trump, as most folks with business backgrounds, think that diplomacy as practiced is a silly waste of time and think they CAN do better deals by using the strategies known and familiar to them.

I would just add that I really don't think Trump is anywhere near the successful business man he makes himself out to be. What he got was a big inheritance from his dad and what he is is a brand. He licenses his name to anyone who'll pay for it- that's basically his business model in a nutshell. His finances may be even worse that we think, considering his refusal to release tax returns.

Also, 'The Art of the Deal' was ghost written- Trump didn't write it.

[Fragony]

If he is succesful at being a brand he's a succesful businessman. It would be good to have an outsider for a change I think, I bet it makes a whole lot of people really nervous if someone relatively free of the interests of lobbyists gets a go.

[Husar]

Also here's a "Sure she's bad, but you have to vote for her or else Trump will win" for you.

[drone]

It would be good to have an outsider for a change I think, I bet it makes a whole lot of people really nervous [b]if someone relatively free of the interests of lobbyists[\b] gets a go.

The current speculations on Trump's connections/dependency to the Russian oligarchy makes this a questionable statement.

[Hooahguy]

The current speculations on Trump's connections/dependency to the Russian oligarchy makes this a questionable statement.

Indeed. Carter Page, one Trump's foreign policy advisers has deep connections with Gazprom (and his campaign manager also used to work for Viktor Yanukovych), so its a little suspicious how the Trump camp insisted on softening the language on Russia in the GOP platform. Plus his recent comment on ending US sanctions on Russia and recognizing Crimea as being a part of Russia.

[Strike For The South]

Do you?
Article 6 of the The North Atlantic Treaty:
This also means that if Hawaii was attacked it wouldnt trigger Article 5.

Leaving our greatest ally of the last century out to dry over a bit legalese. SAD. I can see why the Europeans don't want to live up to their end of the bargain.

Not only will all of continental Europe cease to exist when the shooting match starts but we won't support you over your sovereign territory. We are truly the best ally.

This election is hard for me. I hate Hillary but I REALLY hate Russians. What's a boy to do?

[Hooahguy]

"Out to dry" is a bit extreme language is it not? The US might not have sent troops, but the US did give military equipment and weaponry to the UK. And a carrier was offered should the UK lose theirs.

[Xiahou]

This election is hard for me. I hate Hillary but I REALLY hate Russians. What's a boy to do?

I won't vote for either. I'll probably vote for Gary Johnson. I'm not a big fan of his, but he seems less slimy than Trump or Hillary and it'd be nice to see a viable 3rd party. I hope he gets into the debates at least....

I'm really tired of the notion that we only have Democrats or Republicans to choose from- like that's they way it has to be. The parties are not government entities nor are they defined in the Constitution. We don't need them. People tell me "By not voting for Trump, you're supporting Hillary!". Yes, but by not voting for Hillary, I'm also supporting Trump by the same logic- so they should cancel out.

[Hooahguy]

I won't vote for either. I'll probably vote for Gary Johnson. I'm not a big fan of his, but he seems less slimy than Trump or Hillary and it'd be nice to see a viable 3rd party. I hope he gets into the debates at least....

Unfortunately it will take more than just one or even two elections to make a third party viable, as we saw with Ross Perot. Right now it seems like the Libertarian party only has 4 state-level seats, and a party needs a strong state and local level base to remain viable in the long term.

[drone]

Indeed. Carter Page, one Trump's foreign policy advisers has deep connections with Gazprom (and his campaign manager also used to work for Viktor Yanukovych), so its a little suspicious how the Trump camp insisted on softening the language on Russia in the GOP platform. Plus his recent comment on ending US sanctions on Russia and recognizing Crimea as being a part of Russia.

Hopefully some journo is putting the finishing touches on a series that shows just how much of Trump's business financing is coming from Putin's cronies, since US banks won't lend to him any more.

[AE Bravo]

I dont understand why these third party candidates arent in the debates. It's one thing for them to be completely sidelined but not allowing them to see the light of day defeats the purpose of their existence altogether. Makes no sense.

Unfortunately that would give the two idiots that have a chance less time to talk.

[Hooahguy]

It makes sense how theres a minimum level of polling to be included in the debates, but I think 15% is too much. 5% seems much more reasonable. I doubt that would ever be changed though.

[Xiahou]

Wow... so Gary Johnson. The guy's an idiot, huh? A libertarian who says it's the job of the federal government to prevent discrimination in all cases. That's not.... libertarian.

Is Vermin Supreme running?

[Hooahguy]

I dont know why Vermin Supreme hasnt made more headway. Who doesnt want a free pony?

Also I love him for this:



Supposedly Christie refused to get out of his bus until Vermin and his group was taken away.

[Greyblades]

I love this guy.



So, uh, what is this about:
https://twitter.com/sci_solar/status/758775713541394433

[Greyblades]

So what's going on at the DNC?

https://www.facebook.com/joshfoxintl...6912274261090/