Another week, another mass shooting

[CrossLOPER]

Believe what? That the gun control debate has become so shameless that the left wing politicians and media jump at the chance to turn every tragedy into a platform to preach, to the point where they show themselves as slackjawed idiots incapable of letting go of a narrative until the bitter end.

Incidentally, nice kneejerk there pal, dismissing any critiscism as just another /pol/ delusion, not adressing the points made and posting a link to a tabliod as if it was a grand retort, really makes you seem like you actually watched more than 5 seconds.

I find it hilarious that you feel the need to label WP as a tabloid, when you are posting drivel made by basement dwellers on youtube like it is a grand "wake up sheeple" moment.

[Greyblades]

Huh, I wasnt even serious when I said you hadnt given it even a cursory glance, but here you are still attacking what it is and not what it says.

To be fair, I should have figured it out when you pulled an anti-gun standard statistic as a retort to a critique of the news media plugging an agenda beyond reason.

You know the senior members like to occasionally moan over the lowering in quality this forum has suffered compared to some halcyon days of the 00's, but posts like these from the vetrans makes me wonder if it was so great to begin with.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Huh, I wasnt even serious when I said you hadnt given it even a cursory glance, but here you are still attacking what it is and not what it says.

You know the senior members like to occasionally moan over the lowering in quality this forum has suffered compared to some halcyon days of the 00's, but posts like these from the vetrans makes me wonder if it was so great to begin with.

You remind me of those redditors that tried to "find the boston bombers" before the FBI and got so defensive when people questioned their qualifications.

[Greyblades]

If you says so. This is the first ive ever heard of such an occurance.

[a completely inoffensive name]

You don't remember the subreddit?

[Greyblades]

No.... should I?

[CrossLOPER]

Huh, I wasnt even serious when I said you hadnt given it even a cursory glance, but here you are still attacking what it is and not what it says.

To be fair, I should have figured it out when you pulled an anti-gun standard statistic as a retort to a critique of the news media plugging an agenda beyond reason.

You know the senior members like to occasionally moan over the lowering in quality this forum has suffered compared to some halcyon days of the 00's, but posts like these from the vetrans makes me wonder if it was so great to begin with.

I admit that I did not watch all of it. I instead decided to skim because there was nothing in that video that I did not hear prior on conservative radio (Hannity, Limbaugh) every morning prior to that day. However, since you seem to place a lot of faith in the video that you posted, I decided to listen to all of it. Needless to say, it was just as I suspected. The following is my state of mind and thoughts as I read.

The speaker begins to complain about some things that he saw on twitter or facebook. I found it odd that he would complain about sources that are simply outlets for public speech, but I ignored this as this was a theme I was familiar with. He then began talking about mainstream media doing the same thing. He mentioned quite a few specific examples of transgressions committed by "mainstream media" (a common phrase in the conservative radio type that I mentioned), but really skimped on direct links. He mentioned the Young Turks channel where a commentator was angry about at the NRA's influence on government. Here is the video that he failed to provide (the still in your video is in this one):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTmQ_hom9e4

He then stated that his tone changed after the terrorists' names were dropped. This is odd, considering how the commentator indirectly mentioned Islamic terrorists in that very video. He then went on to talk about white victimization. He then went on a tangent about a conspiracy that the NRA stands for No Retards Allowed and that the shooting was part of a plan to kill handicapped people. I found nothing on this.

He then talked about how one of the shooters was an immigrant from Saudi Arabia. He mentioned how this fact changed the narrative. He mentioned how the stories evolved regarding the motives of the shooters. He talked a lot about the workplace violence angle. I was familiar with a single statement made by Obama regarding workplace violence when the story was breaking and there was not a lot of information coming in. The media types that I mentioned before zeroed in on this issue, and this is where the narrative conspiracy theory really gets its roots.

At this point, the video devolves mainly into Obama bashing because he is crying a lot when kids get murdered by heavily armed psychopaths and how apparently all Muslims need to be reported for any suspicious activity because someone apparently failed to report the terrorist couple for "suspicious activity" such as "do a lot of work out in the garage" and "receiving a lot of packages" during the holidays.

As I said before, it is drivel. I spent a lot more time processing this video than you did. I hope you appreciate this.

The link that I posted wasn't really aimed at you, it was just a contribution to the thread. I suspect that you found it to be a threat to your own narrative, whatever it may be.

As for The Org's past, people were more civil because this place wasn't filled with conspiracy theorists and people who thought they had figured out religion all by themselves. It was also filled with Russophobes, but that is not unusual for a forum with Europeans.

[Greyblades]

He mentioned the Young Turks channel where a commentator was angry about at the NRA's influence on government. Here is the video that he failed to provide (the still in your video is in this one):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTmQ_hom9e4

He then stated that his tone changed after the terrorists' names were dropped. This is odd, considering how the commentator indirectly mentioned Islamic terrorists in that very video.

Did he? I cant seem to find it unless you are talking about the bit where Cenk says:
"We have met the terrorist, it is us. You've got all this nonsense debates about syrian refugees here- what syrian refugees do we have in the country? What terrorist attacks have they done here? None, none."

He is correct that neither of the perpetrators were syrian refugees but the outright rant that followed was indeed of the "this is another american on american gun massacre like all the others" vein, as emphasised by his next few lines:

"When is it going to be in your neighbourhood. I guarentee it's coming. Ok, you want to be scared of something, be scared of something rational: the mass shooters they're everywhere [...] We are the terrorists, we're terrorising ourselves."

Personally an issue I would take with Metokur's video is that, going by the channel's videos since this one, they havent changed their tone that much:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He then went on to talk about white victimization.

Which despite your lable is a real thing; the common double standard that criticism, degeration or outright predjudice of anything western/white is almost never met with the same kneejerk backlash doled out against criticism of any other culture, race and creed. But that is somewhat irrelevent to the topic.

He then went on a tangent about a conspiracy that the NRA stands for No Retards Allowed and that the shooting was part of a plan to kill handicapped people. I found nothing on this.

That was mockery on the video maker's part, taking the opponant's rhetoric and amplifying it beyond absurdity. You couldnt tell from his tone?

At this point, the video devolves mainly into Obama bashing because he is crying a lot when kids get murdered by heavily armed psychopaths

He was reffering to this:

A fairly reasonable response followed up by this after the details of the attackers were shown:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/03/po...ical-reaction/
Likely a fairly standard non-comittal political base-covering. A bit of spineless reluctance to call a spade a spade but hardly damning, though it makes a rather unfortunate image when made alongside several media avenue's dogged insistance that "it could still be a workplace shooting guys!" Long past the realm of reason.

and how apparently all Muslims need to be reported for any suspicious activity because someone apparently failed to report the terrorist couple for "suspicious activity" such as "do a lot of work out in the garage" and "receiving a lot of packages" during the holidays.

Cute, Ignoring that what he said was that the neighbours would have reported them for suspicious activity but didnt for fear of being called a racist. Less "all Muslims need to be reported for any suspicious activity" and more "fear of being called racist kept this attack from being prevented." Something that has happened before

Plus it wasnt just "working a lot in the garage" it was doing it frequently in the middle of the night.

As I said before, it is drivel. I spent a lot more time processing this video than you did. I hope you appreciate this.

No, you really didnt.

As for The Org's past, people were more civil because this place wasn't filled with conspiracy theorists and people who thought they had figured out religion all by themselves. It was also filled with Russophobes, but that is not unusual for a forum with Europeans.

Thank you for exhibiting my point that you think it is acceptable say things about europeans that you wouldnt dare say about jews africans or muslims.

[CrossLOPER]

Did he? I cant seem to find it unless you are talking about the bit where Cenk says:
"We have met the terrorist, it is us. You've got all this nonsense debates about syrian refugees here- what syrian refugees do we have in the country? What terrorist attacks have they done here? None, none."

He is correct that neither of the perpetrators were syrian refugees but the outright rant that followed was indeed of the "this is another american on american gun massacre like all the others" vein, as emphasised by his next few lines:

"When is it going to be in your neighbourhood. I guarentee it's coming. Ok, you want to be scared of something, be scared of something rational: the mass shooters they're everywhere [...] We are the terrorists, we're terrorising ourselves."

Personally an issue I would take with Metokur's video is that, going by the channel's videos since this one, they havent changed their tone that much:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He mentioned the terror watch list.

Last few mass shootings were by white dudes with inane agendas. It would have been reasonable to assume that this mass shooter was white, since it fit the profile. He didn't actually say white, and he was absolutely right. The guy was a homegrown. Then some people went nuts because they want to go off on how Islam is dangerous and Syran refugees are terrorist sleepers, when pretty much anyone can shoot up any one at any time for any reason. This is what reclusive gun loving hillbillies fail to understand.

Which despite your lable is a real thing;

It is part of the culture of victimization(micro-aggressions or whatever), which is what the author of the video ironically complains about in some of his other videos.

the common double standard that criticism, degeration or outright predjudice of anything western/white is almost never met with the same kneejerk backlash doled out against criticism of any other culture, race and creed. But that is somewhat irrelevent to the topic.

And yet the very first thing typical conservative media talks about every morning is how Muslims, Mexicans, Russians or Chinese or whatever are coming to get you. It goes both ways.

That was mockery on the video maker's part, taking the opponant's rhetoric and amplifying it beyond absurdity. You couldnt tell from his tone?

His tone was very smug throughout the entire presentation, so it was hard to tell if he was talking about a specific event, or just failing at sarcasm.

He was reffering to this:

A fairly reasonable response followed up by this after the details of the attackers were shown:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/03/po...ical-reaction/
Likely a fairly standard non-comittal political base-covering. A bit of spineless reluctance to call a spade a spade but hardly damning, though it makes a rather unfortunate image when made alongside several media avenue's dogged insistance that "it could still be a workplace shooting guys!" Long past the realm of reason.

I was aware of what he was talking about. His response to the ongoing event was restrained, as it should have been. Also, again, it cuts both ways. The issue, however, is that the right wingers began pushing that they knew all along that the terrorists were Muslims and that all Muslims want to do this.

Cute, Ignoring that what he said was that the neighbours would have reported them for suspicious activity but didnt for fear of being called a racist. Less "all Muslims need to be reported for any suspicious activity" and more "fear of being called racist kept this attack from being prevented." Something that has happened before

Please tell me how doing stuff in your garage and getting packages is suspicious. I will report my entire neighborhood.

Plus it wasnt just "working a lot in the garage" it was doing it frequently in the middle of the night.

Yeah, it's like he has a job or responsibilities in the daytime or something. Really odd.

No, you really didnt.

OK.

Thank you for exhibiting my point that you think it is acceptable say things about europeans that you wouldnt dare say about jews africans or muslims.

wat

[Beskar]

I saw this article today.
"Why are Americans so obsessed with guns?"

Had this image on it:

[drone]

Why did they exclude Northern Ireland for only the deaths?

[Beskar]

The source didn't include those statistics and this happens often with many things not including Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is kind of its own autonomous entity within the Union, I guess kind of like Puerto Rico is to the United States missing out on things.

[drone]

Then why include the NI population and estimated gun ownership numbers in the other stats? The last statistic is the important one, yet it only covers Great Britain.

[Beskar]

Then why include the NI population and estimated gun ownership numbers in the other stats? The last statistic is the important one, yet it only covers Great Britain.

Different sources of information, not that it matters much.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why did they exclude Northern Ireland for only the deaths?

It would likely skew the results for one thing, and since the troubles stats on anything violence-related in NI have been either difficult to verify or politically charged.

The source didn't include those statistics and this happens often with many things not including Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is kind of its own autonomous entity within the Union, I guess kind of like Puerto Rico is to the United States missing out on things.

This is complete nonsense - NI is only about as autonomous as Wales - Scotland has far more autonomy. It has to gdo with the government facing non-co-operation and therefore having trouble getting stats that are accurate.

Then why include the NI population and estimated gun ownership numbers in the other stats? The last statistic is the important one, yet it only covers Great Britain.

Same reason - bad stats. Likely they don't have an easy way to separate NI from those stats and no easy way to include them in the others.

[Beskar]

This is complete nonsense - NI is only about as autonomous as Wales - Scotland has far more autonomy. It has to gdo with the government facing non-co-operation and therefore having trouble getting stats that are accurate

Not really...
Many goods and services don't include Northern Ireland, always thought it was weird they slapped "Excludes Northern Ireland" on them because there is some water separating the border, but it is just how things are.
They have their own electoral parties separated to the traditional British ones. Whilst Wales and Scotland has a +1, they have their own unique ones.
In many matters, they pretty much have their own little corner and keep to themselves separate from the rest of Britain.

[drone]

The first 3 stats on that graphic should be easy to exclude NI. Wiki says that NI has 1.8+ million people. Legally owned firearms I assume mean they are registered, even with the stereotypical rep of large scale British government IT projects it should be easy to get a stat for Great Britain alone. It's just lazy and disingenuous. "The Yanks are just uncivilized gun nuts intent on killing each other, we are so superior (just ignore that little corner over there...)."

Even with NI gun violence added in I'm sure the US stats still crush it, but it reeks of piling on.

[Sarmatian]

Not so long ago, NI had many qualities of a war zone, which means statistics like that go out of the window.

USA and Great Britain are comparable in that regard (similar level of development, many years of peace and so on...). One couldn't compare gun violence in UK and Syria and come to any meaningful conclusion.

[drone]

Not so long ago, NI had many qualities of a war zone, which means statistics like that go out of the window.

Then just remove the NI population and legal firearms from the stats. Like I said, lazy and disingenuous. I'm sure we could pick a few small regions in the US that would improve our kill ratio tremendously.

[Shaka_Khan]

Or we could compare the United States with countries like Japan and South Korea.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not really...
Many goods and services don't include Northern Ireland, always thought it was weird they slapped "Excludes Northern Ireland" on them because there is some water separating the border, but it is just how things are.

It was historically more expensive to do business in NI.

As Sarmation said, it was a Balkanised Warzone.