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Thread: Assassins & Rebels

  1. #1
    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Assassins & Rebels

    Can Rebels build ( and use ) Assassins when they "inherit" the approprate building type ?

    Also, can they build any of the appropriate buildings ( for Assassins ) ?

    [ Is anyone aware of a Nation Assasinating one of your Generals and offering an Alliance ( via a marrage ) in the same turn !!! ]
    Last edited by DEB8; 11-25-2015 at 18:39.

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Rebels can build, but it seems that their building speed is low. Don't know about assassins, but some low level buldings for elemetary usage (including ports) they do build. But, to tell the truth, I never watched them closely and they usually don't last long as rebels. There are bigger sharks all around them.
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    I'm pretty sure they can (unit prod says all factions, catholic/muslim/orthodox cultures), but usually the rebels are too broke to be able to build/recruit much of anything.
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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    Can Rebels build ( and use ) Assassins when they "inherit" the approprate building type ?
    Slight error on my part : build ( as in above quote ONLY ) should read train.

    Apologies.
    Last edited by DEB8; 12-02-2015 at 21:13.

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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    usually the rebels are too broke to be able to build/recruit much of anything.
    Judging by what some of the rebels in my ( VI expansion ) game are building, they are not broke at all ( i.e. lots of good quality troops and a Stone Keep ) ; not that they fought hard to keep it though... The Assassin building referred to ( in my first post ) here was proberly inherited when the rebels either captured a Pict province or it rebelled.
    Last edited by DEB8; 12-02-2015 at 21:11.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Hey DEB8,

    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    Can Rebels build ( and use ) Assassins when they "inherit" the approprate building type ? Also, can they build any of the appropriate buildings ( for Assassins ) ?
    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    I'm pretty sure they can (unit prod says all factions, catholic/muslim/orthodox cultures), but usually the rebels are too broke to be able to build/recruit much of anything.
    What Droner said... Its especially true for raw MTW... Viking invasion is different ball-game, other circumstances... Often true there too thou... The only place I have seen the rebels do anything systematically or actively so far, has been in Redux somehow (1001 or later). Not seen it elsewhere. Rebels are typically virtually passive and harmless, except in Redux, there they are often active and dangerous, enough to kill weak factions (or players).

    I can't remember if it was RXB1002 or 1003 which had active rebel-use of assassins in full swing and it ended up too chaotic and screwed up as the AI rather built just assassins instead of more needed troops (to defend its territories with, or to conquer new territory somehow). I thus changed it, because of that poor overall AI-performance, all things considered. So the AI have the capacity, once it is changed/altered enough...

    It seems damn near impossible to make the AI handle any agent sensibly thou. There are little logic to it, in terms of the AI-management, it seems more or less random to me (would probably also be my answer to your other question). One can basically use whatever values one like - the AI will still clearly ignore it and do as it please when it comes to agents (but ships as well). I learned that the hard way and empirically. It usually builds too many agents, if any agent are too cheap or too easy to get. It will then typically build irrational/screwed up hordes of it - that is, if left to its own weird devices. Its a mess in this area, AI and agents (again like ships). Fewer kinds of agents in the game mean less possible screw ups, both in theory and practice AI-wise. Agents are also less important then ships to the game-mechanics.

    - A

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    The only place I have seen the rebels do anything systematically or actively so far, has been in Redux somehow (1001 or later). Not seen it elsewhere.
    I saw rebels attack factions, and the last time it was in my VI game as Scots. Rebels attacked the Northumbrians from Reget and captured one povince (Lothane?). It is true I don't see that very often, yet it would be not accurate to say they are TOTALLY passive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    The Rebels in my VI game have attacked their neighbours, but seem unable to keep hold of their gains. However, more recently they are unwilling to fight ( not unlike one of the AI player nations ( Scots ) )! Also, so far ; the Vikings have left me alone ( mainly due to an Alliance ( or two ) ). I am now approx. 35% - 40% through the game ( around 900 AD ) !
    Last edited by DEB8; 12-21-2015 at 19:22.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I saw rebels attack factions, and the last time it was in my VI game as Scots. Rebels attacked the Northumbrians from Reget and captured one povince (Lothane?). It is true I don't see that very often, yet it would be not accurate to say they are TOTALLY passive.
    Well, I did not say or suggest that they were "TOTALLY passive", now did I? That's all on you... I said... "Rebels are typically virtually passive and harmless..." which are accurate and representative... You even say so yourself (indirectly)...


    As for the attacks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I saw rebels attack factions, and the last time it was in my VI game as Scots. Rebels attacked the Northumbrians from Reget and captured one povince (Lothane?).
    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    The Rebels in my VI game have attacked their neighbours, but seem unable to keep hold of their gains. ...
    Some stray attacks here and there, does not really count or convince as active, deliberate or systematic attacks, now does it? It is when several attacks in close succession occurs to a specific target, area or faction that one can talk about an active, deliberate and systematic action/attack. I have only seen rebels do such stuff in Redux (several times), but nowhere else (so far).

    - A

  10. #10
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    I've seen attacks from Reget as well, which isn't too surprising considering the strength of that garrison, but I think that's the only consistently active (starting) rebel group in the vanilla game. It's a strong army, and the provinces around it are weak in comparison.
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  11. #11
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post

    Some stray attacks here and there, does not really count or convince as active, deliberate or systematic attacks, now does it?
    Which kinda makes "raw MTW" more unpredictable and consequently more interesting. You can never know what to expect of those guys in gray. I have been caught at unawares a couple of times when I least expected it, so it taught me to keep an eye on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    I've seen attacks from Reget as well, which isn't too surprising considering the strength of that garrison, but I think that's the only consistently active (starting) rebel group in the vanilla game. It's a strong army, and the provinces around it are weak in comparison.
    Exactly !

  13. #13
    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Which kinda makes "raw MTW" more unpredictable and consequently more interesting. You can never know what to expect of those guys in gray. I have been caught at unawares a couple of times when I least expected it, so it taught me to keep an eye on them.
    So true. He (she ) who presumes anything here, is asking for trouble.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Which kinda makes "raw MTW" more unpredictable and consequently more interesting. You can never know what to expect of those guys in gray. I have been caught at unawares a couple of times when I least expected it, so it taught me to keep an eye on them.
    Passiveness as a device of deliberate deception? Sure Gilly, that has to be it... Oh, you clever, clever you....

    - A

  15. #15
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Passiveness as a device of deliberate deception? Sure Gilly, that has to be it... Oh, you clever, clever you....

    - A
    Clever enough to see that the narrow visor of your avatar's helmet forbids you a broader vision of things, Axie. Your every message says: "You are wasting your time playing your petty games meant only to please backward simpletons, while Redux..." Try to find at least one post of yours where THE INIMITABLE REDUX is not declared (implicitly or explicitly) the apex of computer games and the essence of challenge and we might have some further dicussion. Until then enjoy what you so proudly deem the product of yours and what in fact is only a perversion (or a modification, if you like the euphemism better) of the original idea of others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  16. #16
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Assassins & Rebels

    I think this thread has run it's course.
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    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

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