Brexit Thread

[Greyblades]

Hm, I will admit that for a moment I had been thinking it may not actually cost us much, the dead cat bounce is quite an issue, but that foolishness was after I had voted, I made my decision with the full knowledge of the consequences.

Pity the idiots who voted based on lies, though I think fewer voted leave than stay based on them, and laugh at the idiot politicians that jumped on the bandwagon while thinking leave wouldnt actually win.

Whether parliament made the promise with smart or foolish intent I still expect it to keep it's word and know there will be hell to pay if it does not.

The media can keep panicking as much as it wants and keep blaming thier loss on the politics of fear.

My feet are not near cold.

A little something on the politics of fear:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...over-evidence/

We didnt ignore the experts, we accepted their prediction that this will hurt and we considered it worth it in the end.

The "experts" that we actually ignored were the ones that told us that this was an irrecoverable loss, that the nation will collapse for this.

Bullshit, nations have recovered from much worse, we recovered from much worse 80 years ago, we can do it again.

Our predicted ruin is as much bullshit as the idea that this would have brought about immediate prosperity and the reclaiming of past glories.

[Pannonian]

Hm, I will admit that for a moment I had been thinking it may not actually cost us much, the dead cat bounce is quite an issue, but that foolishness was after I had voted, I made my decision with the full knowledge of the consequences.

Pity the idiots who voted based on lies, though I think fewer voted leave than stay based on them, and laugh at the idiot politicians that jumped on the bandwagon while thinking leave wouldnt actually win.

Whether parliament made the promise with smart or foolish intent I still expect it to keep it's word and know there will be hell to pay if it does not.

The media can keep panicking as much as it wants and keep blaming thier loss on the politics of fear.

My feet are not near cold.

We didnt ignore the experts, we accepted their prediction that this will hurt and we considered it worth it in the end.

The "experts" that we actually ignored were the ones that told us that this was an irrecoverable loss, that the nation will collapse for this.

Bullshit, nations have recovered from much worse, we recovered from much worse 80 years ago, we can do it again.

Our predicted ruin is as much bullshit as the idea that this would have brought about immediate prosperity and the reclaiming of past glories.

Have you noticed that Scotland has been exploring the option of remaining as an independent entity, separate from the rUK? And that Spain has clarified that there will be no objections (despite fears over Catalonia), and other European countries have expressed support? Did you take the break up of the UK into consideration when you weighed the pros and cons?

[Greyblades]

Yes.

It is the only true regret I have. I hope, with Sturgeon outright calling for democracy to be ignored, with all our history together, with the uncertainty of the EU, that the scots will stay, but if they go so be it, I will not begrudge them for it as I share their anger at westminster. Scotland would cost us money to maintain, but it would be worth it for the company in trying times, I just have to accept they may not share the affection.

I will also need some citations on that spain thing.

[Pannonian]

Yes.

It is the only true regret I have. I hope, with Sturgeon outright calling for democracy to be ignored, with all our history together, with the uncertainty of the EU, that the scots will stay, but if they go so be it, I will not begrudge them for it as I share their anger at westminster. Scotland would cost us money to maintain, but it would be worth it for the company in trying times, I just have to accept they may not share the affection.

I will also need some citations on that spain thing.

Spain is unlikely to veto an independent Scotland’s EU membership

Spain’s veto seems unlikely. José Manuel García-Margallo, Spain’s foreign minister, declined to state that Spain would veto Scottish accession when invited to do so. Instead, the Spanish Government has taken the line that the cases of Catalonia and Scotland are fundamentally different because the UK’s constitutional setting permits referendums on secession while the current Spanish constitution enshrines the indivisibility of the Spanish state and establishes that national sovereignty belongs to all Spaniards.

The Spanish government is trying to make a virtue out of necessity. They would find it politically difficult to oppose an independent Scotland’s membership. As Stephen Tierney and Katie Boyle observe, ‘if the UK Government is prepared to recognise an independent Scotland and work towards its membership of the EU with the cooperation of EU institutions and the overwhelming majority of the other Member States, then it is simply unforeseeable that this would be vetoed by an individual Member State’.

So Scotland, once independent, can apply and Spain will not veto an independent entity. If Scotland wants membership of the EU, and it overwhelmingly does, independence is the way to go.

[Greyblades]

So Scotland, once independent, can apply and Spain will not veto an independent entity. If Scotland wants membership of the EU, and it overwhelmingly does, independence is the way to go.

That is a politician's "maybe" and a pair of scottish professor's "surely"'s, one leaving his options open the other being rather optimistic, both seem careful not to say a definite "no they wont block".

I do not have faith in this blog of yours to come to such a conclusion, I dont think scotland should base it's options on it either.

[Kralizec]

That is a politician's "maybe" and a pair of scottish professor's "surely"'s, one leaving his options open the other being rather optimistic, both seem careful not to say a definite "no they wont block".

I do not have faith in this blog of yours to come to such a conclusion, I dont think scotland should base it's options on it either.

Spain's prime minister has said during Scotland's referendum that separation from the UK would mean Scotland would find itself outside the EU, and that it would have to apply for its own membership. He also said that allthough he dissaproves of seperatism in general he would not veto Scotland's application, since Scotland's independence would be legal and legitimate according to the UK's own laws (unlike Catalonia's attempts).

I clearly recall this and it would be easy to find a number of articles about his exact words, but I'd rather have you go through the trouble yourself. It's not as if you're ever going to be convinced anyway. From this thread and others it's abundantly clear that you'll allways find some excuse to dismiss facts that don't agree with you.

[Greyblades]

Rather a long winded way of saying you're too lazy.

Spanish Prime Minister gives EU warning to Scots.

Mariano Rajoy has said an independent Scotland would have to apply from scratch for EU membership and the application process could take eight years.

Mariano Rajoy told the Spanish Parliament a yes vote for Scottish independence would be a “torpedo to the vulnerabilities of the European Union”.

Mr Rajoy added that the EU was not created “to break up states, but to integrate them” but Mr Salmond insisted the Spanish would not block a Scottish application.

The Spanish Prime Minister spoke out after the Telegraph disclosed that Mr Salmond has been accused of deliberately misleading Scots about an independent Scotland’s EU status.

The First Minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend that he had spoken to the Spanish, French, Italians and Belgians about his assertion that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU.

Mr Salmond has claimed claim that Scotland would not need to apply from scratch and would instead get a fast-track entry in the 18 months between a Yes vote and actual separation in March 2016.

But Mr Salmond told Radio Four’s Today programme: “The Spanish government's position is unchanged. They have said so many times that if there is a consenting democratic process then Spain, as they put it, would have nothing to say about it."

So no block, maybe, politicians being untrustworthy buggers at the best of times and salmond being an extremely liberal man when it comes to promises he cannot ensure. What is certain they sure as hell wont be getting in quick and English money will be a lot more forthcoming.

[drone]

So Scotland, once independent, can apply and Spain will not veto an independent entity. If Scotland wants membership of the EU, and it overwhelmingly does, independence is the way to go.

In this scenario, who pays to rebuild Hadrian's Wall? All that unprotected border, ripe for illegal immigration and smuggling.