Trump Thread

[Hooahguy]

A lot of people are comparing this to what Nixon did about a year before he resigned during his investigation, but I think the comparisons are kinda shaky. Unless there really is something bad that Trump is trying to hide. Whats interesting is that Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, had to recuse himself about the investigation into the Trump campaign. And he was one of the people to recommend firing firing Comey. So this might get interesting.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Comparing it Archibald Cox is silly. Cox was a special prosecutor investigating administration corruption having been specifically appointed by the Justice department to do so and was fired when he persisted in requesting tapes of conversations in the White House which may very well have been valid evidence in that investigation. It felt, at the time, as though the President were firing the prosecutor in his own trial because the chap was prosecuting too well. Cost Nixon a lot of political "points" among his own party at the time.


Comey moved into the political game and ended up in a situation where anything he was saying was evaluated politically first. Not good for the FBI.

[Montmorency]

Comey moved into the political game and ended up in a situation where anything he was saying was evaluated politically first. Not good for the FBI.

How about the timing? This wasn't untrue in the past half year. Aside from speculation on the Russian investigation, there ought to be some other association that makes it convenient to make this decision now. The administration could also have been planning for Comey's dismissal since at least March, but then it's still the same question. Depoliticizing FBI leadership isn't a good account on its own when firing Comey clearly enflames that issue.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How about the timing? This wasn't untrue in the past half year. Aside from speculation on the Russian investigation, there ought to be some other association that makes it convenient to make this decision now. The administration could also have been planning for Comey's dismissal since at least March, but then it's still the same question. Depoliticizing FBI leadership isn't a good account on its own when firing Comey clearly enflames that issue.

Any issue would inflame. If no issue, then the flames would be fanned on the "do nothing don" theme. The major media loathe him, the political left loathes him and their rank and file truly believe him to be dangerously unstable. Plenty of main stream establishment GOP think little better of him than the Dems. The criticism will end when he leaves office.

[Montmorency]

So again we're left to ask, why this change, and now? One scenario is that removing Comey is one step in AG Sessions reshuffling the Justice Department and federal law enforcement to be more in line with his ideology and policy prescriptions. Another is that the shock factor is part of an intended misdirection by the administration to diffuse criticism of unpopular policies in the making. Focusing on Comey seems to lead us into the trap of assuming the administration is (still) erraticly feckless and has only got around to replacing Comey as an afterthought, after all this time, and with no special consideration.

[Strike For The South]

It's a panic move by criminals. He won't last the year.

25 possible subpoenas. I'm harder than a diamond in an ice storm right now.

[Greyblades]

"This will be the end of Trump's presidency." Says increasingly nervous man for 6th time this year.

[Strike For The South]

"Trump's presidency is over." Says increasingly nervous man for 6th time this year.

I didn't say it was over, I said he wouldn't last the year.

[Greyblades]

[Strike For The South]

I am aware of the article

[Greyblades]

And you are aware of the comparison I am making?

The Dems have been pushing the russsia angle for half a year and have come up with nothing save suspicion and the claims of "He's going to be impeached" are the same exhibit of desperation. I can tell you with 99% certainty that it wont be this that ends his premirship early, if anything. The most I see coming fo this is that they just might get Sessions to step down.

As for Comey, before this the dems hated him for reopening the hillary investigations, the republicans hate him for not doing anything with it and his stunt of admitting hillary was grossly negligent as secretary of state but refusing to prosecute put a bullet in the claims of impartiality.

The only question is why he wasnt out earlier.

[HopAlongBunny]

A little light reading:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ey-test-238225

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...igation-238216

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-agenda-238229

Sure, maybe it is nothing; the optics however...

[Shaka_Khan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7deb775e8019

All of Trump’s campaign statements just vanished from his website. So let’s remember them.

By Avi Selk May 9 at 6:09 PM

The Trump campaign website got an upgrade this week. According to a news release from the president's reelection campaign (yes, already), it's now a one-stop shop for “fact-based information” that the mainstream media doesn't want you to know about.

On donaldjtrump.com, you can check out never-before-seen rally photos, buy merchandise and get the real, unfiltered scoop on what your president is up to.

Sounds pretty handy. One problem: The website revamp also appears to have vanished every single news release and public statement issued during President Trump's first campaign.....

[Fragony]

Trump is a bit of a joke but he might be remembered otherwise, see Reagan, who knows he's new to this. But anything that isn't Hillary Clinton had to do and I can totally understand that, there weren't any good options in France lately either

[Strike For The South]

So is the white house being contradictory out of stupidity or malice? Is the end game here simply to entrench enough republicans to obstruct any serious investigation?

[drone]

So is the white house being contradictory out of stupidity or malice? Is the end game here simply to entrench enough republicans to obstruct any serious investigation?

From what I can tell, this just follows the usual pattern: Trump gets it in his head to do something, does it without telling people, and then they try to clean up the mess as best they can. Any other president would at least have a PR plan in place, and a cover story that doesn't look like swiss cheese.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Trump really ticked them off by failing to leak the decision far enough in advance. Unforgiveable sin by the standards of inside-the-beltway media.

[Strike For The South]

do you really think that is all that this is?

[Shaka_Khan]

[Idaho]

Trump desperately needs a war to fill the 24 hour news networks with lots of great footage of buildings being blown up and "bad guys" being shot. Then internal opposition can be branded traitors... So really he needs the trigger to be a domestic terrorist attack. ABC stuff.

[Greyblades]

I get that FOX is a joke, but that doesn't mean that using comedy shows as your primary source of political commentary is any less stupid.

[Husar]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ing/101541914/

[Beskar]

Trump is going to cancel all Press Briefings in response to White House unable to get their story straight and evil media.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/12/medi...ngs/index.html

[drone]

Trump is going to cancel all Press Briefings in response to White House unable to get their story straight and evil media.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/12/medi...ngs/index.html

The briefings are only for comedic relief. If you want the real truth, you only need a reporter to ask the Donald himself. He will blurt it out, consequences be damned.

[Greyblades]

Truly the real crime here is denying us another session with spicer.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

do you really think that is all that this is?

All? Of course not. But petulance over such things has always played a role inside the beltway. There is a tendency among many of us, especially politics junkies and policy wonks, to emphasize the rational and downplay the human and irrational -- if for no better reason that the human and the irrational are so much harder to predict and evaluate. But we should remember that all of those involved are very human individuals -- for good and for ill.

[drone]

Truly the real crime here is denying us another session with spicer.

I haven't seen any footage of him hiding behind the hedge. Please tell me someone got footage...

It's a panic move by criminals. He won't last the year.

I think you underestimate how beholden House Republicans are to Trump, also how stubborn and narcissistic Trump is. Unless we see actual photos of Putin handing Trump comically large bags with dollar signs on them, the House will not vote for impeachment. They need the Trump voters, they are to far in it themselves, and they just don't have the balls. That will have to wait for 2019. And Trump isn't going to resign, they will have to drag him kicking and screaming out of the White House in chains.

If they were smart, the congressional GOP would set up an independent investigator, and fund the FBI extra to extract the truth. Get him impeached and convicted, and "make do" with a President Pence, who would be much easier to work with on their agenda.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I haven't seen any footage of him hiding behind the hedge. Please tell me someone got footage...


I think you underestimate how beholden House Republicans are to Trump, also how stubborn and narcissistic Trump is. Unless we see actual photos of Putin handing Trump comically large bags with dollar signs on them, the House will not vote for impeachment. They need the Trump voters, they are to far in it themselves, and they just don't have the balls. That will have to wait for 2019. And Trump isn't going to resign, they will have to drag him kicking and screaming out of the White House in chains.

If they were smart, the congressional GOP would set up an independent investigator, and fund the FBI extra to extract the truth. Get him impeached and convicted, and "make do" with a President Pence, who would be much easier to work with on their agenda.

You are correct. Absent some blinkingly unlikely behavior or collusion coming to light (and I doubt such exists), Trump's transgressions do not rise to impeachability. Being narcissistic and by some accounts a bit asinine are not impeachable. Even if the House were to vote impeachment on some trumped up basis -- pardon the pun -- then Senate would not convict. As you say, the Reps have to go back to their home districts every two years, and a goodly number of those districts truly liked Trump's shoot from the hip style.

However, I think @Strike For The South was not suggesting impeachment so much as resignation. That scenario involves Trump's efforts to do anything being stymied at every turn by the Courts and Congressional gridlock, thus neutering his ability to do anything, coupled with a media hounding of administration officials and media/opposition groups pouncing on any little miscue as a way to constantly lambast Trump. Under that scenario, Trump decides that he cannot accomplish anything and resigns, opting out of the whole thing as being an excrement sandwich from which he does not choose to sup further.

[drone]

You are correct. Absent some blinkingly unlikely behavior or collusion coming to light (and I doubt such exists), Trump's transgressions do not rise to impeachability. Being narcissistic and by some accounts a bit asinine are not impeachable. Even if the House were to vote impeachment on some trumped up basis -- pardon the pun -- then Senate would not convict. As you say, the Reps have to go back to their home districts every two years, and a goodly number of those districts truly liked Trump's shoot from the hip style.

He basically just told Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russian investigation. Obstruction of justice is what got Clinton impeached. Remember, it's not the crime, but the cover up. And as much as he lies, the best way to get Trump to tell the truth is to question his authority and/or give credit to someone else. If the Dems take the House in 2018, by that time there will be plenty to choose from for the articles of impeachment. And if the evidence is serious enough, the Senate will convict. The 2020 election cycle will hit 22 Republican senators, so they cannot look like complete stooges during the trial, and many may decide at that point that Pence would more suitable.

Trump was planning a visit to the Hoover building within the week, that has now been cancelled. The Bureau is not amused.

However, I think @Strike For The South was not suggesting impeachment so much as resignation. That scenario involves Trump's efforts to do anything being stymied at every turn by the Courts and Congressional gridlock, thus neutering his ability to do anything, coupled with a media hounding of administration officials and media/opposition groups pouncing on any little miscue as a way to constantly lambast Trump. Under that scenario, Trump decides that he cannot accomplish anything and resigns, opting out of the whole thing as being an excrement sandwich from which he does not choose to sup further.

Not gonna happen. Resigning would not only be an admission of failure, but he couldn't continue enriching himself through the Treasury.

[Montmorency]

Article on the subject: Technically it could be considered obstruction if one could legally prove the action was taken with corrupt intent - but that's the hard part itself.

It is not enough to show that a defendant knew the act would have a side consequence of impeding an investigation; achieving that obstruction has to have been the specific intention.

“To prove that he did it not because Comey was grandstanding or showboating or all the other excuses he has given, but because he wanted to impede the investigation, that would be awfully hard to prove

As for impeachment, there are any number of things to construe as impeachable under Trump, but

the Constitution’s standards for impeachment and removal of a president — if he has committed “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors” — are met by anything that a majority of the House and two-thirds of the Senate are willing to vote for. That makes prognostication an exercise in vote counting, not legal analysis. Because Mr. Trump’s fellow Republicans control both chambers of Congress, as things stand, he is exceedingly unlikely to be impeached for firing Mr. Comey.

while the threshold may have been met for Democrats, it has clearly not been met for Republicans.

Possibly if Trump were to do something to personally dishonor or threaten influential Republican Congresspersons - on top of the putative venality.