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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Donald Trump Jr. posts documents pertaining to interactions with Russian-government agents.



    But really

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  3. #3
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Donald Trump Jr. posts documents pertaining to interactions with Russian-government agents.



    But really

    So his defense is he tried to collude but failed?


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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    So his defense is he tried to collude but failed?
    Basically. Apparently the whole family is dumber than a sack of hammers.
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Actually the defense is: it's not illegal to seek out evidence of a presidential candidate's illegal action.

    It's cant even be counted as collusion because Jr wasnt working for the campaign nor is he in official office.

    Edit: only laws I could find (on a 5 minute google search) that illegalises forms of collusion is surrounding actual crimes like fixing elections, illegal campaign contributions and public corruption.

    None of these is what Trump Jr did or would have committed if the source was legit.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 07-11-2017 at 22:20.
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Actually the defense is: it's not illegal to seek out evidence of a presidential candidate's illegal action.

    It's cant even be counted as collusion because Jr wasnt working for the campaign nor is he in official office.
    1. Yes it is, when the transfer of information is managed by a foreign national, certainly when it is an agent of a foreign government.
    2. Donald Trump Jr. worked with and on his father's campaign, as did Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner.
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    1. Yes it is, when the transfer of information is managed by a foreign national, certainly when it is an agent of a foreign government.
    2. Donald Trump Jr. worked with and on his father's campaign, as did Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner.
    1. No it isnt; "A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election." Reading this in context with the rest of the law which at no point refers to information it can safely be said that the law only bans exchanges of monetary value in any form, which this in no way was.

    As an aside I would advise against using vox as a source of news, their track record is as reliable as brietbart.

    2. I meant in terms of official capacity. Admittedly I cannot find any information either way on this issue; was he employed by the campaign or did he just tag along? The latter divests the president of responsibility for Jr's actions but the search engines are clogged with stories about this so I cannot find any definitive proof either way.

    As for Jared Kushner and Paul Manfort, perhaps, can you determine they were there on Sr's knowledge or working independantly?
    Last edited by Greyblades; 07-11-2017 at 22:56.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Actually the defense is: it's not illegal to seek out evidence of a presidential candidate's illegal action.

    It's cant even be counted as collusion because Jr wasnt working for the campaign nor is he in official office.
    http://electionlawblog.org/?p=93740

    Hard to see how there is not a serious case here of solicitation. Trump Jr. appears to have knowledge of the foreign source and is asking to see it. As I explained earlier, such information can be considered a “thing of value” for purposes of the campaign finance law. (Update: More on the meaning of “thing of value” here and here.)

    It is also possible other laws were broken, such as the laws against coordinating with a foreign entity on an expenditure. There could also be related obstruction, racketeering, or conspiracy charges, but these are really outside my area of specialization and I cannot say.
    Who to believe? A law professor or Greyblades?

    Tough decision, I guess it's undecided.


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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Actually the defense is: it's not illegal to seek out evidence of a presidential candidate's illegal action.

    It's cant even be counted as collusion because Jr wasnt working for the campaign nor is he in official office.
    The last part of your post might disculpate Trump himself, if he can argue that he wasn't in on the loop on what his son was doing. Without accidentily blurting out something self-incriminating, which wouldn't surprise me.

    Beyond that: of course I don't know the relevant criminal statutes, but if what he did is not outright illegal I would be highly suprised. The email exchange establishes that:

    - Rob Goldstone tried to set up a meeting between little Donald and a Russian government lawyer (that's the wording of the email)
    - for the purpose of sharing incriminating information about Hillary Clinton (also explicitly stated in the exchange)
    - for the benefit of his father's campaign (again, it says so literally in the exchange)
    - little Donald acted so excited that I can only assume the exchange gave him a boner

    As for the first part...he has defended himself by claiming this isn't any different from the opposition research that all politicians do on their opponents, a claim that has since then been contradicted by former campaign bosses from both the Democratic and Republican party. The general gist being: if somebody with ties to a foreign government offers to help you in a national election, you stay the hell away from it and in fact should call the FBI.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Donald Trump Jr. posts documents pertaining to interactions with Russian-government agents.



    But really

    I am surprised how long it took for the "But Hillary!..." line to appear :)
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