Trump Thread

[drone]

So the indictments dropped: So what?
Somehow it's a little hard to believe Russia will extradite anyone.
If it's for domestic consumption fine, most people will realize that it is practically meaningless.
As as solution? Absolute zero.

It does make clear that Russian interference happened. It won't change anyones mind about it, and deniers will likely double down on denial.
While there may be comfort in the clear illustration of investigatory prowess, the clear lack of a penalty should instill no confidence.

True, chances are no Russians will face jailtime. But buried in the indictment are mentions of conspiracy with persons "known and unknown to the grand jury". This set of indictments has two purposes: highlight what the Russians did, and tie in any coordination to other targets of the probe. Mueller has internal documents from the troll farm, how he got them is the real story...

[Montmorency]

True, chances are no Russians will face jailtime. But buried in the indictment are mentions of conspiracy with persons "known and unknown to the grand jury". This set of indictments has two purposes: highlight what the Russians did, and tie in any coordination to other targets of the probe. Mueller has internal documents from the troll farm, how he got them is the real story...

It underscores that obstruction of the special counsel is in fact a matter of sedition and treason, as well as an impeachable offense on its face.

[a completely inoffensive name]

It underscores that obstruction of the special counsel is in fact a matter of sedition and treason, as well as an impeachable offense on its face.

I think the criteria for impeachable offenses has already been met. What does this add to it, except for maybe convincing a few more radical centrists that perhaps we did in fact elect a bad man.

[rory_20_uk]

The "political class" would rather put up with a leader they dislike than try to fix a system that might lead to them not, y'know,having the cushy job that they've come to like - and in the meantime, Trump means almost all the rest of them get a free ride.

If the Dems got in, would they start impeachment? Might they too prefer to have Trump wreck as much as possible with the eye on the next major election?

[Beskar]

If the Dems got in, would they start impeachment? Might they too prefer to have Trump wreck as much as possible with the eye on the next major election?

Even though there are grounds for various actions and reprimands on the president, anything happening is next to zero. What will most likely happen is they will simply obstruct him or even.. persuade him to pass some democrat policies.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I think Beskar is correctly summing up the practical strategy being applied. He doesn't mention that the Dems and progressives are seeking to oust him in the next election, but that really doesn't need much mention as it is obvious. Trump's being an asshat certainly makes this less difficult.

The indictments of Russians for attempting to influence the elections are clear evidence in support of what most of us were sure of from the get go. Trump's public flailings about could have been China and the like during the campaign were his effort to keep the focus on Hillary. Apparently it worked, at least just enough. Did Russian media manipulation make a difference in swaying the minds of some voters? Mayhap.

The indictments, however, do not yet mean that Trump or persons working for him knowingly colluded to get Russian support to beat Hillary. Did the Russians try to do so? Very probably. Would Trump personnel have been dumb enough to be played by them? Very Probably. Knowing collusion? We shall see. That requires evidence of active effort to do so by both halves of the equation.

[Sarmatian]

I skimmed through the indictment, didn't read it thoroughly, but it could be summed up with "much ado about nothing".

There were some people who used faked and/or stolen identities to set up pages on social media. Russian government is not explicitly mentioned. No amounts of money were mentioned, except in one case - 1.25 million $ monthly, but that was not the amount spent but rather monthly budget of an organization that operates in many countries of the world. Even if the entire budget was spent on influencing American elections for two years without spending anything elsewhere and not paying a cent for staff and infrastructure, it's not even 30 million. Double or triple or quadruple that and it is still a drop in the ocean compared to the money spent on the elections by just two candidates.

And, still, even journalists can't draw conclusions and are still sticking with the story "Russia supported Trump" even when the indictment says that the same people who tried to rally support for Trump, also helped promote "not my president" when he won. The goal was never supporting Trump, but promoting political instability. Only now are some picking up on that. The problem is, the mass hysteria created about Russian support for Trump is now proving detrimental to serious discourse on the issue.

New York Times today had an editorial mentioning US meddling in the elections over the world. They had experts counting both overt and covert meddling in various elections since the WW2. They came up with 81 for USA and 39 for USSR/Russia, and at least in my humble opinion, those are quite conservative figures. This is nothing new, this is same old, same old, just digital instead of analog.

When you have mainstream media that's more interested in click bait qualities of an article rather than its substance, you're gonna get stories like this.

[Montmorency]

I think the criteria for impeachable offenses has already been met. What does this add to it, except for maybe convincing a few more radical centrists that perhaps we did in fact elect a bad man.

Yes, but this restrains Trump's alternatives more than ever. It gives Mueller security. Now it's not just a matter of an "anti-Trump witch hunt", but of national security.



Give me a better metaphor, sports people.

The "political class" would rather put up with a leader they dislike than try to fix a system that might lead to them not, y'know,having the cushy job that they've come to like - and in the meantime, Trump means almost all the rest of them get a free ride.

If the Dems got in, would they start impeachment? Might they too prefer to have Trump wreck as much as possible with the eye on the next major election?

Possibly, but it might short-circuit this loop. We don't need Vichy Democrats.

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