EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

[Gilrandir]

I think the Catalan Independence crowd might dispute the 'no foreign soldiers' claim based on the police suppression efforts during the vote, but I agree that the Russian forces in Crimea and Donbas were entirely different in scope and implied level of threat.

It would be again a flawed claim. Russian forces in parts of Ukraine were on "pro-referendum" side, while the Spanish police tried to prevent it.

[drone]

Of course, the Russians are funding the Catalan independence (along with any other secession movement they can find). Wouldn't surprise me if they found Russian cash in UKIP and SNP coffers either...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Of course, the Russians are funding the Catalan independence (along with any other secession movement they can find). Wouldn't surprise me if they found Russian cash in UKIP and SNP coffers either...

Everything old is new again, as the song says. We are back to the diplomatic niceties of the 1880s, all friends in friendly competition etc. -- while behind the scenes most of the players are trying to urinate in the other player's soup.

[Pannonian]

May told Trump UK jobs may be at risk with the 220% tariff on Bombardier products. Trump has listened and taken appropriate action. The tariff is now 300%. Welcome to the post-EU world, Brexit supporters.

[Gilrandir]

May told Trump UK jobs may be at risk with the 220% tariff on Bombardier products. Trump has listened and taken appropriate action. The tariff is now 300%. Welcome to the post-EU world, Brexit supporters.

What does Trump have to do with EU and Brexit?

[Pannonian]

What does Trump have to do with EU and Brexit?

The Brexit argument goes, if the EU tries to play hard with the UK, we can always turn to the US and our special relationship. Right now we're turning to our third option, China. Who are trying to take over UK companies for their tech (a well known downside of working with China), which negates any tech and skills advantage we currently have. By some distance the most benevolent major trading bloc from our perspective is the EU, but Brexiteers have it in their heads that anything that is bad for the EU is good for the UK. Resulting in us hurting the EU a little bit, and ourselves a whole lot more.

[Husar]

What does Trump have to do with EU and Brexit?

Part of the Brexit argument was that the UK would be better off or at least barely worse off trading with their special friend the USA instead of Europe. If Trump is going to destroy UK exports to the US, the UK gets under more pressure to find other trading partners, if there even are any which can replace this demand. If they lose a lot of EU and US trade, they may navigate into deep trouble.
Unless you believe that the Commonwealth will somehow buy all those planes and other goods instead.

[Gilrandir]

Part of the Brexit argument was that the UK would be better off or at least barely worse off trading with their special friend the USA instead of Europe.

"Instead" means redirecting trading THE SAME goods. I can't claim I am aware of the trading list of the items between the UK and the USA and between the UK and the EU, but I have a feeling they don't coincide. So if you sell, for instance, your fish to the EU it doesn't mean the USA will buy it instead.

[Pannonian]

"Instead" means redirecting trading THE SAME goods. I can't claim I am aware of the trading list of the items between the UK and the USA and between the UK and the EU, but I have a feeling they don't coincide. So if you sell, for instance, your fish to the EU it doesn't mean the USA will buy it instead.

Try telling the Brexiters that. Their argument is that we don't need to beg for a trade deal with the EU, as the US will take up the slack. If the EU tries to impose tariffs or other barriers to free movement of our goods, we can sell to the US instead, so goes their argument. And since the US are now imposing 300% tariffs when it suits their businesses, we're now looking to sell to the Chinese instead. The wonderful world of Brexit.

[Fragony]

Try telling the Brexiters that. Their argument is that we don't need to beg for a trade deal with the EU, as the US will take up the slack. If the EU tries to impose tariffs or other barriers to free movement of our goods, we can sell to the US instead, so goes their argument. And since the US are now imposing 300% tariffs when it suits their businesses, we're now looking to sell to the Chinese instead. The wonderful world of Brexit.

What makes you think you need to beg? The EU has never been more weak than it is now, you will probably have to make deals with what's left of it.

[Kagemusha]

What makes you think you need to beg? The EU has never been more weak than it is now, you will probably have to make deals with what's left of it.

This i call wishful thinking. Do not expect much leniency from EU towards Britain.

[Fragony]

This i call wishful thinking. Do not expect much leniency from EU towards Britain.

Of course not they don't want others to get any ideas. EU is nothing but a ball of threats they are hardly in the position in to make, and that is not wishful thinking, they simply don't have any answers anymore.

[Kagemusha]

Of course not they don't want others to get any ideas. EU is nothing but a ball of threats they are hardly in the position in to make, and that is not wishful thinking, they simply don't have any answers anymore.

EU does not need answers regarding to this. Only thing that is relevant is the huge internal market of EU.

[Fragony]

EU does not need answers regarding to this. Only thing that is relevant is the huge internal market of EU.

They need an answer for a simple question: why the fuck do I exist. It are the ideologists who are in trouble, that huge internal market isn't going away because of some bullying. Do you honestly think that money won't find it's way? That UK can't trade anymore in the Eurozone? Rediculous. Won't be painless (especially for the remaining net-payers) that's all.

[Kagemusha]

They need an answer for a simple question: why the fuck do I exist. It are the ideologists who are in trouble, that huge internal market isn't going away because of some bullying. Do you honestly think that money won't find it's way? That UK can't trade anymore in the Eurozone? Rediculous. Won't be painless (especially for the remaining net-payers) that's all.

UK can trade at Eurozone, but it will become far less profitable to UK. Simple as that.

[Fragony]

UK can trade at Eurozone, but it will become far less profitable to UK. Simple as that.

Yes, so? I'd gladly suffer that to be rid of these increasingly scary idiots.

To compare;

Try telling the Brexiters that. Their argument is that we don't need to beg for a trade deal with the EU, as the US will take up the slack. If the EU tries to impose tariffs or other barriers to free movement of our goods, we can sell to the US instead, so goes their argument. And since the US are now imposing 300% tariffs when it suits their businesses, we're now looking to sell to the Chinese instead. The wonderful world of Brexit.

LOL@this, the wonderful mind of someone terrified of Brexit, don't worry global warming will kill you first

Now who is more realistic

[Pannonian]

Yes, so? I'd gladly suffer that to be rid of these increasingly scary idiots.

To compare;

Try telling the Brexiters that. Their argument is that we don't need to beg for a trade deal with the EU, as the US will take up the slack. If the EU tries to impose tariffs or other barriers to free movement of our goods, we can sell to the US instead, so goes their argument. And since the US are now imposing 300% tariffs when it suits their businesses, we're now looking to sell to the Chinese instead. The wonderful world of Brexit.

LOL@this, the wonderful mind of someone terrified of Brexit, don't worry global warming will kill you first

Now who is more realistic

Not one of your pro-Brexit predictions has turned out right so far, while you've been reduced to saying tat, while there is a world of pain coming up for us Brits, the pain will be worth it.

Are you coming over to live here in the ex-EU UK and putting your wallet where your mouth is?

[Fragony]

Not one of your pro-Brexit predictions has turned out right so far

Is it there yet?

[Pannonian]

Is it there yet?

The most ardent arguer for Brexit, speaking from the London Borough of Dutchland, unable to answer the question of whether any of his positive predictions about Brexit have come true, while many of the negative predictions are coming true or have come true already.

[Fragony]

The most ardent arguer for Brexit, speaking from the London Borough of Dutchland, unable to answer the question of whether any of his positive predictions about Brexit have come true, while many of the negative predictions are coming true or have come true already.

A haven of positivity compared to the predictions of a total crash of absolute doom of the stock market, recovered the same day. Your economy is still growing. Never said it wouldn't tickle a bit, just pretty minimal compared to a zombie-apocalypse or a nuclear-winter. So far so right, now wait for the actual Brexit no? If you are right that cottage must be pretty cheap

[Pannonian]

A haven of positivity compared to the predictions of a total crash of absolute doom of the stock market, recovered the same day. Your economy is still growing. Never said it wouldn't tickle a bit, just pretty minimal compared to a zombie-apocalypse or a nuclear-winter. So far so right, now wait for the actual Brexit no? If you are right that cottage must be pretty cheap

If everything's hunkydory over here, when are you coming over to live in the ex-EU UK? You've been telling us it's all going to be fine, and it'll be better than living inside the EU. Your country's inside the EU, mine is outside. So when are you coming over to share that utopia?

[Fragony]

If everything's hunkydory over here, when are you coming over to live in the ex-EU UK? You've been telling us it's all going to be fine, and it'll be better than living inside the EU. Your country's inside the EU, mine is outside. So when are you coming over to share that utopia?

I can't, I'm too occupied with complaining about trivial things like becomming a province in an ever-closing costly undemocratic superstate

[Gilrandir]

They need an answer for a simple question: why the fuck do I exist.

Errm... Didn't your parents tell you? A tip: one word in your question is the answer.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Pannonian:

I have wondered why you have not taken to labelling them Brexiteers, since you think the whole Exit effort is a bit of a Mickey Mouse operation anyway...

[Pannonian]

Pannonian:

I have wondered why you have not taken to labelling them Brexiteers, since you think the whole Exit effort is a bit of a Mickey Mouse operation anyway...

I sometimes do. I keep track of what's happening on the subject, and just about every promise made by the Brexit side has been abandoned by its campaigners as they know reality works otherwise, yet their supporters keep repeating the mantra to pro-Remainers, "You lost. Get over it." I suspect if they win a referendum proclaiming that the Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it, they would proclaim that the democratic will needs to be respected and the Earth and Sun need to work accordingly. And Frag will reassure us Brits, from the safety of Dutchland, that adopting this new scientific paradigm will work out well for Britain in the long run.

[Beskar]

To be fair to Frags, he would probably lose his entire collection of historical African tribal artefacts if he crossed the channel due to our anti-knife laws. I cannot remember where he posted the pictures, but it was actually rather impressive from what I recall.

Pannonian: I have wondered why you have not taken to labelling them Brexiteers, since you think the whole Exit effort is a bit of a Mickey Mouse operation anyway...

I just find it personally amusing they would call themselves that, considering the French origins they are mimicking.

[HopAlongBunny]

The Brexiteers
Is this a tragedy or a comedy?
Who do we get for the headline roles?
Most importantly, when does the musical hit the stage?

[Fragony]

I sometimes do. I keep track of what's happening on the subject, and just about every promise made by the Brexit side has been abandoned by its campaigners as they know reality works otherwise, yet their supporters keep repeating the mantra to pro-Remainers, "You lost. Get over it." I suspect if they win a referendum proclaiming that the Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it, they would proclaim that the democratic will needs to be respected and the Earth and Sun need to work accordingly. And Frag will reassure us Brits, from the safety of Dutchland, that adopting this new scientific paradigm will work out well for Britain in the long run.

I am not exactly alone in that, more than enough non-scared specialists, they are just less vocal and get less airtime if at all. You don't get any further than inviting me to move to the UK and see for myself.

@Beskar, yeah they are pretty neat. My photobucket-account died, I'll make some new pics

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The Brexiteers
Is this a tragedy or a comedy?
Who do we get for the headline roles?
Most importantly, when does the musical hit the stage?

Whether Brexit ends up working or not in real life, we definitely have to stage this as a period farce. We need three Brexiteers and a young chap from the country to stumble into each on his trip to London to make his fortune. We will also need a fetching lass to play the landlady's wife, preferably with well developed....page three attributes.

[Pannonian]

I am not exactly alone in that, more than enough non-scared specialists, they are just less vocal and get less airtime if at all. You don't get any further than inviting me to move to the UK and see for myself.

@Beskar, yeah they are pretty neat. My photobucket-account died, I'll make some new pics

Less vocal and less airtime? The Brexit party is represented by around 90% of MPs in the Commons, as whipped by their leaders. No more needs to be said about the Tories. But the Labour party is led by a lifelong Eurosceptic who's led his party on the road he's always taken, against the EU and its predecessors (he was against the EEC).