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Thread: Swordsmith Workshop

  1. #1

    Default Swordsmith Workshop

    Hi Everybody,

    So I built Swordsmith Workshop to get Chivalric Man at Arms but I don't have the unite in my construction list.

    Thanks,
    MoKuS.

  2. #2
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Hi Everybody,

    So I built Swordsmith Workshop to get Chivalric Man at Arms but I don't have the unite in my construction list.

    Thanks,
    MoKuS.
    Perhaps you are in the wrong age. Chivalric units are available starting from the High.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  3. #3
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Perhaps you are in the wrong age. Chivalric units are available starting from the High.
    Or faction, CMAA are only available to Catholics.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Perhaps you are in the wrong age.
    What do you mean with the wrong age? Do you mean that they become available at specific year?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Chivalric units are available starting from the High.
    What do you mean with "starting from the high"?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    Or faction, CMAA are only available to Catholics.
    I am playing German.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Thanks. I got it. I am playing in early campaign.

  7. #7
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Thanks. I got it. I am playing in early campaign.
    Once you reach the year 1205, they will become available.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    Once you reach the year 1205, they will become available.
    Thanks for clarification.

  9. #9
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    MoKus, I would advise you to read some hoarded knowledge of this forum. This would spare you asking so many questions (not that I don't like to share - on the contrary I enjoy it - but it would spare you so much unneccessary distractions from the game). I believe drone can provide you with links that will brief you on the units' quality (aka A Beginners Guide to Medieval Total War ), characteristics of provinces and tech trees for three faction types (Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim). If it is too much trouble for drone I have all these saved on my computer (and Medieval Total War Manual in case you didn't read it), so I can send them to you. But I think one can't attach files to posts here, can he (this is again a call to drone for help)?
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 10-05-2018 at 12:58.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  10. #10
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    And starting from 1320 you will get access to Gothic units (as Germans).
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    And starting from 1320 you will get access to Gothic units (as Germans).
    Thanks. I read the thread for the new gamer and that helped me a lot. The tech tree which a friend gave me has problems. For example it is not mentioned that Gothic units become available from 1321.

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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    MoKus, I would advise you to read some hoarded knowledge of this forum. This would spare you asking so many questions...
    I nearly added something re that myself after my last reply ( on reinforcements )...

    [ MoKus - see under : M:TW Guides : Useful links, tools, files and downloads : MTW Info Pack. There's some useful stuff here. ]
    Last edited by DEB8; 10-05-2018 at 22:26.

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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Thanks. I read the thread for the new gamer and that helped me a lot. The tech tree which a friend gave me has problems. For example it is not mentioned that Gothic units become available from 1321.
    I don't think the MTW Tech Tree covers the ERA availabilities for any unit... Check out the Unit Availability PDF file in the MTW Info Pack.
    Also get a copy of the "The Complete Total War Unit Guide" ( see under : M:TW Guides ).

  14. #14
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Thanks. I read the thread for the new gamer and that helped me a lot. The tech tree which a friend gave me has problems. For example it is not mentioned that Gothic units become available from 1321.
    The official tech trees aren't complete, the added units from the VI expansion are missing and they don't always have all the build reqs right. The MTW Info pack is better in that regard. Frogbeastegg's Unit Guide and Beginner's Guide are probably the best ones to look at for new players, they are comprehensive and well written. The wiki has incomplete sections and is poorly written, but the stats and build requirements for units and buildings come straight from the v2.01 game files (literally, I wrote a parser to generate the base wiki-code for each unit/building page) so it works as an easy one-stop lookup for questions along these lines. Once you have the stats, if you want the hardcore number crunching we can dig up the numerology threads from deep in the bowels of the site.

    Of course you started with ze Germans, which is not the easiest faction to play by any means...
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    The official tech trees aren't complete, the added units from the VI expansion are missing and they don't always have all the build reqs right. The MTW Info pack is better in that regard. Frogbeastegg's Unit Guide and Beginner's Guide are probably the best ones to look at for new players, they are comprehensive and well written. The wiki has incomplete sections and is poorly written, but the stats and build requirements for units and buildings come straight from the v2.01 game files (literally, I wrote a parser to generate the base wiki-code for each unit/building page) so it works as an easy one-stop lookup for questions along these lines. Once you have the stats, if you want the hardcore number crunching we can dig up the numerology threads from deep in the bowels of the site.

    Of course you started with ze Germans, which is not the easiest faction to play by any means...
    Thanks. I already read those threads. I also ask for MTW info pack.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    I don't think the MTW Tech Tree covers the ERA availabilities for any unit... Check out the Unit Availability PDF file in the MTW Info Pack.
    Also get a copy of the "The Complete Total War Unit Guide" ( see under : M:TW Guides ).
    Thanks. I already read the thread.

  17. #17
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    Thanks. I already read those threads. I also ask for MTW info pack.
    Sorry, meant to add that one in: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...tid=166&id=748
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    Thanks.

  19. #19
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    I am playing German.
    I'll venture to offer you some tips since (as it has been remarked) Germans are not a simple faction for a newbie to handle.

    1. When I play HRE I fool around with men-at-arms only before Swiss units come into play. When the clock strikes 1205 Swiss halberdiers become available and in 1320 - Swiss pikemen and armored pikemen. I tend to rely heavily on the former. They are good against both spears and cavalry. The latter are also superb but I somehow get access to them when my armies are strong enough to do without them. So try to tech up Switzerland. It should be your core troop-producing province.

    2. You start with lots of provinces and scanty troops to defend all of them. Since I can't have a strong army in all border provinces, I leave there a token garrisson and billet my main army in a hinter province that borders on several border provinces (forgive my tautology). For instance, instead of trying to provide Tyrolia, Austria and Bohemia with a strong army each, I rather keep one big army in Bavaria. This strategy has two advantages. First, your enemies can't see this army unless they send an agent there (and usually they don't). Second, when they do attack some border province they will do it with small forces just enough to outnumber your slim garrison. Then you either try to beat them off (who knows you may succeed) or retreat to your stronghold and come with a vengeance the next year from the hinter province.

    3. Learn the type of your borders and discover which of them are river borders. You can do that by opening a province info panel and then mousing over a neighboring province. The bottom line on the panel will tell you what kind of terrain you will have to cross to get to this neigboring province. If it is a river you will fight a bridge battle. It is a fantastic boon if you defend and a nuisance when you attack. In your case, Burgundy and Provence have river borders with anything to the West. But beware: river borders are tricky, they may not work both ways. For example, if you attack Hungary from Austria you will have to cross a river, but when someone attacks your Austria from Hungary, he will have to cross none. The same is with Denmark/Saxony border, but it is in the Germans' favor, IIRC.

    If you need more tips, don't be shy to ask.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 10-06-2018 at 11:58.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I'll venture to offer you some tips since (as it has been remarked) Germans are not a simple faction for a newbie to handle.

    1. When I play HRE I fool around with men-at-arms only before Swiss units come into play. When the clock strikes 1205 Swiss halberdiers become available and in 1320 - Swiss pikemen and armored pikemen. I tend to rely heavily on the former. They are good against both spears and cavalry. The latter are also superb but I somehow get access to them when my armies are strong enough to do without them. So try to tech up Switzerland. It should be your core troop-producing province.
    Thanks for the tip.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    2. You start with lots of provinces and scanty troops to defend all of them. Since I can't have a strong army in all border provinces, I leave there a token garrisson and billet my main army in a hinter province that borders on several border provinces (forgive my tautology). For instance, instead of trying to provide Tyrolia, Austria and Bohemia with a strong army each, I rather keep one big army in Bavaria. This strategy has two advantages. First, your enemies can't see this army unless they send an agent there (and usually they don't). Second, when they do attack some border province they will do it with small forces just enough to outnumber your slim garrison. Then you either try to beat them off (who knows you may succeed) or retreat to your stronghold and come with a vengeance the next year from the hinter province.
    I already used this strategy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    3. Learn the type of your borders and discover which of them are river borders. You can do that by opening a province info panel and then mousing over a neighboring province. The bottom line on the panel will tell you what kind of terrain you will have to cross to get to this neigboring province. If it is a river you will fight a bridge battle. It is a fantastic boon if you defend and a nuisance when you attack. In your case, Burgundy and Provence have river borders with anything to the West. But beware: river borders are tricky, they may not work both ways. For example, if you attack Hungary from Austria you will have to cross a river, but when someone attacks your Austria from Hungary, he will have to cross none. The same is with Denmark/Saxony border, but it is in the Germans' favor, IIRC.

    If you need more tips, don't be shy to ask.
    Thanks for the tip. This way I can leave small force, mainly archer to defend the province.

    I am however very bad in tactics. Is there any guide for this?

  21. #21
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post

    Thanks for the tip. This way I can leave small force, mainly archer to defend the province.

    Make sure that after 1205 you produce arbalesters. Archers run out of ammo too fast (for a bridge battle which may take quite alongish time to finish). And don't forget spears. A couple of spear units (pikes work even better), a couple of swords, one or two cavalry (to chase routers) and tons of range units - that's your Burgundy army for years to come. Unless you crush the French and expand westwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoKus View Post
    I am however very bad in tactics. Is there any guide for this?
    If you mean battle tactics, there is A Beginners Guide to Medieval Total War which I mentioned. It contains (among others) tips on how to fight with different factions types (classified by religion). But those are only tips. Mastery is attained by practice. When I acquired the game I spent some years just fighting battles (custom ones, quick ones - you can choose any of them from the menu). But you may do this en route - in your campaigns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    One more thing I forgot to mention. As Germans you will have access to a unique unit - Swabian swordsmen which are trained ONLY in Sawbia and ONLY in Early. People say they are very good, myself never had a chance to try them. But now you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  23. #23

    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    One more thing I forgot to mention. As Germans you will have access to a unique unit - Swabian swordsmen which are trained ONLY in Sawbia and ONLY in Early. People say they are very good, myself never had a chance to try them. But now you do.
    Thanks

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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    All good tips from Gilrandir - especially keeping a big army in a second-line province. If you keep your border provinces lightly garrisoned, the AI seems less inclined to attack, and when it does, it uses a smaller army so you can either fight or retreat and then counter-attack next turn.
    I also find the Germans/HRE one of the more annoying early-game factions. I seem to spend far too long with just spear/archer armies, with way too many urban militia, and never enough money But Swabian swords are worth getting if you can afford them
    As for battlefield tactics - practice, practice, practice.... and don't forget the pause key, too....
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    Member Member DEB8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by macsen rufus View Post
    As for battlefield tactics - practice, practice, practice.... and don't forget the pause key, too....
    Practice makes perfect ( eventually ) ; but use of that pause is the key ( no pun intended ) !

  26. #26
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    use of that pause is the key ( no pun intended ) !
    I don't agree on that. I use it very seldom (mostly when I have to leave the game for a brief time) and almost never with the purpose of doing something while the armies are at a standstill. Neither did I use it when I was starting my MTW gaming career. All I have learned was through practice and guide reading.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I don't agree on that. I use it very seldom (mostly when I have to leave the game for a brief time) and almost never with the purpose of doing something while the armies are at a standstill. Neither did I use it when I was starting my MTW gaming career.
    Then you can think and act ( in battles ) very, very fast. Bravo.

    All I have learned was through practice and guide reading.
    I learnt the game, plus Strategy and Tactics this way too...

    [ The use of the pause button just helps me keep up with the AI's ( in battle ) decisions. ]

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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by macsen rufus View Post
    and don't forget the pause key, too....
    See. Others use it too Gilrandir...

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    I can't imagine playing without active pause, especially when I use horse archers in nearly every army (I even buy them as mercenaries if I can't train them). Coordinating all that hit and run (luring) actions in many distant places on the battlefield is simply impossible without pause when 2-3 seconds delay makes huge difference. Micromanaging is also essential for reducing losses to the minimum. Active pause is just too good to not use it.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  30. #30
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swordsmith Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    Then you can think and act ( in battles ) very, very fast. Bravo.
    Quote Originally Posted by DEB8 View Post
    See. Others use it too Gilrandir...
    Perhaps you are overestimating my merits. The chief reason why I shy away from key usage is that I have been practicing with battles for five years or so without any awareness of the functions that keys can perform. For instance, I never knew one could press ALT and make the (horse) archers charge, so I used them in a melee only after they ran out of the ammo. Thus one may say that I have never developed a habit of using keys rather than learnt to win deliberately avoiding them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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