Re: regarding Clifton thread & Axalon/DEB8
Originally posted by Beskar
The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.
Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.
They are both separate long-standing accounts. They both use consistent IPs which are typical of ISP's in their geographical areas (no proxies, TOR, or suspicious IPs). Their geographical areas being thousand miles apart. There is nothing that connects their accounts. Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.
Even then, whilst alt accounts are generally frowned upon, action is not enforced unless the rules are broken. Punishments being applied across all accounts. Ban evasion is a clear automatic ban. Or using an alt to insult some-one, so your main account is not tarnished, ends up with a non-lenient infraction on your main account.
The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.
You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable. Just because it is 'Axalon' doesn't mean there are any exceptions. He could be the Pope or Queen Elizabeth or Judas Iscariot, doesn't matter. The behaviour is not acceptable.
You can receive this warning as "The staff have listened, mission complete" then go about enjoying the parts of the Org that you enjoy, or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.
Its the responses and timing of the responses of teh posters involved [deb8/axalon] that give them away [likely being the same person] Beskar - during 3 related [and plenty of others it would appear] threads:
1. the MTW DEADLY SINS thread [opened by me in the closing of 2008 and resurrected by deb8 in 2017]
2. the Clifton thread [opened by a new member in the closing of 2018]
3. the watchtower thread [spawned by the locking of the clifton thread due to being trolled aggressively by deb8]..
So, just to put things into perspective, for anyone not familiar with the whole story..
[Threads made by same people on same topic get locked after trolling by same people]
1. the Sins thread was opened by me in the closing of 2008 and has contributions by Caravel and others.. the whole thread was discussing iron man rules in order to level the game against the AI.. axalon had participated in that thread originally - apparently had gotten an infraction [by caravel] as he was very hostile against the points being made in the thread..
The thread was resurrected by deb8 in my absence during 2017 and was mostly trashed [with monolectic statements] by him and in conclusion axalon [with personal insults and demeaning] as well.. the moderator [drone] tried to pull axalon's reins in the trashing but was being told basically off - he ended up with locking the thread..
2. the clifton thread [ON THE VERY SAME TOPIC AS THE SINS THREAD AND WITH A LINK TO IT] was opened by a completely new member - clifton - in the closing of 2018 that wanted to discuss house rules. caravel gave many clues to the new member and a link to the closely related to the new thread's content SINS thread.. deb8 appeared and aggressively picked on caravel to the point that i re-appeared after a 6.5 years absence and deb8 dissapeared.. the thread started thriving up to a point that deb8 - while i was not online appeared and picked up on caravel even more aggressively than before with straight out confrontational trolling.. drone - locked the thread..
3. the watchtower thread was opened by me in january 2019 - immediately after the locking of the clifton thread, to discuss the closing of the clifton thread and request the thread being cleared by deb8s trolling and re-opened. It also alluded that deb8 may be axalon as they now suspiciously try to close thraeds on the same topic by the same people.. the staff played what appeared to be delaying/stalling tactics to get me off the back - while half admiting this was a mistaken call - after much pressure by me the clifton thread got re-opened and cleared of deb8.. at that point axalon appeared initially to dismiss, later to placate and divert attention of the point that was being made: ie that he has a pathological grudge against certain posters and their topics..deb8 was nowhere to e found.. and after being called out several times by me, appeared finally to.. also troll this thread into a close..
From ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT: axalon has a grudge against the specific topic and against me[gollum], caravel and anyone who might actually discuss or support it/and us. It also raises the question that deb8, that appears to mirror axalon and his fancies and works towards his ends, may be his alt account..
[IP's as conclusive proof for the existence of alt accounts]
..no modder - had he done that - with an account constantly under the cross heirs of the staff due to the mod would make that easy for you to spot..which is why [if i'm right] axalon trumpets that now..
had someone done that - he would have done it as [IP address] to be his alibi, not his nail in the coffin - which the staff could have have found out long before anyone else in the forum notices clues that give it away..I have already clearly explained that DEB8 is not my alt-account, and that I have no alts, or that I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two. That is what is relevant here. The administration can formally corroborate all this via IP-numbers, if necessary. Take it up with them, if you must...
..the fact that you can't find how this may be happening doesn't conclusively mean that it can't or doesn't happen.. since you seem to know this, perhaps you should tone the conclusive tone of the response a bit..
[wathtower thread clues]
as i wrote previously axalon moves in first [when deb8 that was involved in the closing of the clifton thread that spawned the watchtower thread was nowhere to be seen despite called out] the watchtower thread[right after your answer [#39], to set the tone] to manipulate the impressions with his "prestigious dismissivness"intially smugly and impolitely dimsissing and - [supposedly] leaving - which is what he usually 95% of the time does - to come back a few posts later - making[by axalon standrards] an about/180degree turn, to placate and divert attention.. this about turn is like a solar eclipse for aXXXie standards - pretty rare, all the more so when i am involved, as i'm sure you'll have noticed by now..
axalon moves from:
in the first response, to:. What is true is that I do think that Caravel, Gollum (and Martok) are indeed ridiculous people - just look at this thread.
-I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two.- his posts [#53 & #65] in the sins thread totally discredit this..
Its interesting that Martok is also targeted now - in his absence - drone buddy, seems you're next mate, is this why you always back down?..
deb8 has been called out by me in several instances in the watchtower thread [posts: 1, 11, 26, 42, 46] and came out immediately after the last one [post 46] when it was clear axalon was being discredited by his absence and only his appearance would have toned this down..until then nowhere to be seen depsite having been him that did the trolling that resulted in the [clifton] thread closing and being alluded [in the watchtower thread] to be an alt acount..
When he finally did appear, he went on to troll to his heart's content - there was no real discussion or anything..his 'excuse' that he had better to do than bother with caravel is..totally discredited by his actions-deb8 trolled aggressively caravel in the clifton thread that was thriving..while i was not online..deb8 logged in in several instances before replying to the watchtower thread and logged out every time he saw me.. he wanted to start his reply without me online..
deb8 is pretty 'sane' and actually very exact and informed when posting about the game, in several threads in the main hall..but behaved like a complete and pretty nasty troll [using apparent naivete] in the watchtower thread..and a very clever one too.. watch how he played with the expressions used in the various instances in all these exchanges, he used:
"drivel" - used sarcastically, from axalon's snobish drivel, in the sins thread
"hyberbolic rant" - mirroring ludens in the watchtower thread and so get me 'worked up'
"duped" - [used probably sarcastically]- its from a post in my mod thread that i linked in. It has a fix for the BGs suicidal behaviour - something aXXXie doesn't want you to know that i did and publicised - probably because he's using it since then in his mod too
IF, axalon=deb8 - this is incredibly clever trolling masqueraded as false naivete - using the naivete as a screen to unleash under its guise his frustrated spite in an effort to get me worked up under your[the staff] very nose..
And then there was the personal tone and abusive wording..towards of course [accidentally, i'm sure] yours trully- no comment needed all very clear, if its aXXXie and especially if i'm right and he risks being exposed - or would have to tone down the deb8/aXXXie collaborations in teh future..
..even the theme of the abuse used by deb8, echoes axalon's"including you".. aXXXie mate, dont get worked up that people take my word at face value.. its because i wear my heart on my sleeve, treat all well and fairly, speak the truth and move about with regard to others - all these things you mostly dont do mate.."this wont cut with me"
What's also very interesting, is how deb8 and axalon never appeared in the watchtower thread together.. obviously - if they are the same person - would be extra work to make it appear natural and not give any more clues away, so it would have been avoided - conveniently, and the two reconvene [which is their usual mode - see many main hall threads..] long after i'm gone..
was deb8 reprimanted for the trolling in the wachtower thread by the way??!
[clifton thread clues]
the same he[deb8] did in the clifton thread [posts removed so now i can't showcase] - with a different style [than in the sins thread] he trolled it aggressively and timely to oblivion..he let some water run after my re-appearance as not to give target and then, when i wasn't logged in he aggressively picking on caravel that he now rather likes
axalon didnt appear in the clifton thread, because i immediately pin-pointed him in anything else but name..and everyone picked up on that including drone so someone else had to spoil the fun as otherwise it would have been too obvious - since they[?] know they[?] can always count on your staff for locking the threads they troll..[troll "accidentally" always on the same points, by the same posters
axalon - completely by coincidence obviously, trumpeted the fact [that he wasn't involved in the clifton thread]:
, you guessed it: in his placating [watchtower thread] response that tried to divert attention..Enjoy the re-opened cliffton-thread, that I never was a party in...
[Sins thread clues]
you can see how i get a "warning" by drone in the clifton thread, not to tread there[in rivalry ground] - because drone knows i will subside - which i jokingly as ever do.. compare aXXXie when he gets a little editing after plenty of dirty demolishing/trashing by him and [you guessed it] deb8 of absent members in an 8 year old resurrected in 2017[by deb8 - conveniently] thread [MTW DEADLY SINS - started by me in the closing of 2008]: aXXXie demolishing Sins thread and its posters then_
drone trying to pull aXXXie's reins in the sins thread and finally_ aXXXie's trashing drone and the thread/posters reply
all the while a certain deb8 runs circles around anyone supporting the Sins thread [that he resurrected to trash with monolectic statements] and the points it makes.. he interestingly collaborates with axalon, helping him to mention certain things about certain "ridicoulous" and absent people, as well as giving him a reason to comment conclusively "in retrospect" and to debunk [!] [their words] them and their points- like echo in the mountains
[Having to go through strains to get a normal thread on topic only when one person is trolling it, continuously over time]
As far as going back to places of the forums we enjoy we were doing just that as we always have been - it was your staff's mistaken/placating to trolling call that got them closed - on the same topic, over a few years, after the same patrons troll them..
and it took one and a half thread pages[you finally took action in the watchtower thread at post #39 - and "apologised" [you put the apology part in the edit.. it wasn't part of the response, just an afterthought for diplomacy's sake] for being late while all the while the moderators were keeping me at bay and so by dragging it to keep it all sleeping - thanks for the apologies matey
no hard feelings - i - in many respects, understand you..
the whole forum is now placating an aggressive, two-faced, sociopathic troll and an account with whom they operate like two hands of the same person in tone, and timing and scope in a number of threads against specific people/points of view [and its not just me and caravel - reluctant samurai, girlandir, tyberious, stazi on occasion and plenty of others have been targeted over the years]..
[Rivalry]
as far as the rivalry is concerned, i'll tell you what: nor i - nor caravel [nor Martok since aXXXie mentioned him]- started it nor maintained it - ever - and anyone not an alt account of aXXXie will tell you that..
When axalon first appeared (early fall 2008 - if memory serves) in the MTW section [which due to the membership - the leading patrons was THE PLACE TO BE for all things MTW] of the org, everyone treated him in the same way we treated all: helpfully, welcomingly, nicely, fairly.. we all quickly realised that axalon wasn't interested in any of that.. axalon wanted to be correct and better than anyone else, even on occasions that this couldn't or wouldn't happen.. if he was proven wrong or had to back down, he would be furious..sulk and hold a grudge FOR EVER.. and that is still the case.. he also proved incredibly possessive.. he wasn't inetersted in sharing anything, and always had to have the last word and be correct and vindicated.. its always black and white with him - his way or the highway - and if he can't completely impose this, its all macchinations and manipulation to maneuver into position and nothing more..
we all became painfully aware that axalon wasn't interested in being part of the community, axalon wanted to dominate the community, supplant it - and by now he does that with the entire forum wherever its to his interest..
Over time, he abandoned any meaningful discourse and turned into a bulldozer on the outside - rude, overbearing, totally smug with a foul air of authority.. by now, anything he says or writes is only to manipulate and dominate.. appearances is all he ever cares about, which says it all..
Having to be this way [with the axalon account], to promote his mod and political agenda around it and ambitions, it would make perfect sense to have a "casual" newby type account - with which to relax, be able to actually ask and discuss things and not having to care if he's proven wrong, and also use as backup or for the sake of "convenience" whenever necessary..
and plenty of deb8/axalon collaborations/co-appearances - some benevolent and some [very] malevolent appear to corroborate all this..
There were chapter after chapter after chapter of bad blood in his endless quest for domination.. the feud with Tyberious - another modder that appeared at the same time as him [misnomer, he basically just trashed the poor unsuspected guy and got him litteraly out of commission..], when he got demoted from moderator in the TWC, and in endless occasions here.. we've lost count.. you talk to me about feuds? - who is the common factor in all the feuds in the MTW land? You guessed it its aXXXie.. axalon and tyberious, axalon and gollum, axalon and caravel, axalon and Martok, axalon and.. basically everyone else [and especially other modders for..obvious reaons..
maybe you are going about this the wrong way and give him every now and then a good temporary ban to cool him off instead of rising the placation level to the point that you lock threads that even allude to his presence and/or dislike of the topic and posters like the clifton/sins threads??!.. - just saying..
[notice how staff and membership dread even at the mentioning of him regarding a topic everyone knows he doesn't like - yet its completely legitimate and at the right forum, its his presence that creates the dread..: drone in the clifton thread, drone in the watchtower thread #6, drone in the watchtower thread #10, Stazi in the watchtower thread
this all results from the constant half-coveted bullying of everyone and everything he doesn't like..]
the fact that my/our threads are resurrected to get trolled 8 years after they were made and in my absence says it all..and when a new thread, by a new member on the same topic is also immediately trolled [by the same DEBATE_Y guy
In 2012, before the org awards, axalon - without any provocation withdrew his mod from participating in the voting, and posted a drool of hate towards me, which he then proceeded to delete..as he realised that it was doing him a disservice in his clientelle and the community in general - people were picking up on him.. Stazi certainly seen that post - as he managed to reply - and probably Andres who had been just promoted to Admin..
..my mod went on to take the award with quite a large number of voters considering participation in the voting/awards that year..
i guess he did the right thing because - had my mod won the award while his was a candidate too - he would probably have to kill himself, being such a nice balanced chap.... so its better to troll with an alt account and trash my threads and me in my absence instead..8 years later - the courageous type
axalon is in an ongoing quest to quench the forum from anything he perceives as a threat - and he went on - very methodically and calculatingly in the sins thread, with an alt account that he "built" in public face over time and that he unleashed when i was long gone and certain not to defend it..
he just never calculated that i'd be back.. and most likely got very worked up when i posted this in the clifton thread..its probably what got the thread troll-closed..which leaves me with very little else to do ,since a 10 years lapse has not been enough to cure the animosities and hatreds, than having to take all said animosity and hatred as a compliment..
all this is just another chapter in this story..
everything points to the fact that you are dealing with a very methodical and nasty sociopath
aXXXie, caravel - that you now that i'm back started to like - said you should ask them to change your medication, he said its not working matey..
[nothing left to do..]
..so when someone-s who is rivalling me when i dont him [i never write methodically, periodically and in a targeted manner against anyone], targets me by any means and you play along to his means that go against forum rules - what am i to do then??!
..its ok Beskar: keep your jail cards and - as far as i am concerned your jail too..
PS the thanks in this post, says it all
PPS sorry it was me of all people that found you out aXXXie.. still love you, though
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