Hard-Coded Limits

[Simetrical]

(This thread is duplicated here. The threads will be maintained in duplicate, with all changes in one being made to the other as well.)

This thread is devoted to discovering the hard-coded limits for various moddable text-file things. For instance, the game doesn't accept unit sizes of greater than 60, or an HP value of more than 15, or more than 500 units. This information is critical to would-be modders who may want to, for instance, double all units' HP—this would lead to elephants being completely screwed over, since their HP would be effectively half of the entered value.

The format of the entries will be as follows:

Stat: Min [number], max [number]. [How we know the min limit], [how we know the max limit].

If you have a stat to contribute, or have a better or more specific source for the limit than is stated, please post! For instance, I can't remember where I saw any of the dev statements that I cite, or where someone posted evidence for any other limits. Specific cites help!

If you plan to do testing, obviously some things are more important than others. Things like attack, charge, and range values are critical, whereas the max rank spacing is pretty unimportant. Still, everything helps to make this a better document.

descr_model_battle.txt
Overall model number: Min ?, max 255. Experimentation.

descr_rebel_factions.txt
Units per event: Min 1?, max 20 for non-regional events at least. Experimentation. Extras cause error message with -show_err but possibly no other ill effects.

descr_sm_factions.txt
Faction limit: Min ?, max 21. Experimentation. Note that the maximum must include, for unexpanded RTW, one rebel faction, four Roman factions (including a Senate and the Roman alliance), six barbarian factions, four Greek factions, three Eastern factions, two Carthaginian factions, and an Egyptian faction, as far as faction-culture correspondence goes. In BI the culture restrictions and Roman alliance/Senate limitations are lifted, but there still must presumably be a rebel faction. Fewer factions than 21 are possible.

export_descr_ancillaries.txt
ExcludedAncillaries: Min 0, max 3. Default usage, experimentation. Extras cause CTD.
Effects: Min 0, max 8. Assumption, experimentation. Extras make it impossible to gain ancillary through a trigger and cause erratic effects if an existing ancillary is transferred.

export_descr_buildings.txt
Hidden resources: Min 1?, max 63 or 64 (not sure which). Extras cause a CTD, not including rome causes a CTD (I think), not including italy prevents Marian reforms (I think). Experimentation, experimentation. But see here for a way to overcome the limitation.
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Experimentation. Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 9. Assumption, experimentation. Extras CTD.
Upgrades per building level: Min 0, max 8. Default usage, logic based on previous. Levels can only be upgraded to levels listed after them on the "levels" line.
Units recruitable in a given city, not counting agents: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation. Extras CTD.

export_descr_character_trait.txt
Levels per trait: Min 1, max 9. Assumption, experimentation.
Points required for a threshold: Min 1, max ≥ 600. Assumption, experimentation.
Points assignable per trigger: Min 0, max ≥ 100. Assumption, experimentation.
Antitraits: Min 0, max 10 (1.2)/20? (1.6). Default usage, experimentation/experimentation.

export_descr_unit.txt
Overall unit number: Min ?, max 500. JeromeGrasdyke. Extras CTD?
Units per faction: Min ?, max 100. Experimentation. Extras don't appear for custom battles, but otherwise function normally.
Units buildable per city: Min 0, max 32. Default usage, experimentation. Extras CTD.
Men per non-general unit: Min 6, max 60. Experimentation. Extras CTD?
Men per general unit: Min ?, max 31. Experimentation. Extras ignored, even if they come from another source (Influence, personal security, or faction leader/heir status).
Extras per unit: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. Experimentation.
Collision mass: Min ?, max ≥ 100. Default usage.
Number of officers: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Number of mount effects: Min 0, max 3. Text file description.
Mount bonus: ?
Number of attributes: Min 0, max none? Experimentation, guess.
Number of formations: Min 1, max 2. Text file description.
HP: Min ?, max 15. Dev. Extra considered 15.
Attack factor: Min 1 (missile), max 63. Experimentation, user interface. Zero results in no missile attack. Extra considered 63.
Charge bonus: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Missile range: Min 20 (at least for javelins), max special. Experimentation, experimentation. Every projectile has an effective maximum range as well, indirectly determined by the velocity and angle ranges specified in descr_projectile_new.txt; increasing this file's range sufficiently will require you to increase the velocity and/or angle range in that file for the change to work properly. Later versions of RTW give an error message if the velocity doesn't allow the stated range. More range than is possible will be effectively reduced to the maximum possible for the velocity.
Missile ammo: Min 2 (but 0 is okay as well), max ?. Experimentation (and guess). Note that ammunition is determined per man, not per unit, and it apparently counts even men who don't actually use the ammo, such as drivers of chariots (experimentation). Ammunition use is tracked per unit (I'm pretty sure), not per man, so if only half of your unit is firing at their target, they'll effectively have twice the ammo.
Undocumented kill rate variable: ?
Number of weapon attributes: Min 0, max none? Experimentation, guess.
Armor factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Defensive skill factor: Min 0, max 63. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 63.
Shield factor: Min 0, max 31. Default usage, user interface. Extra considered 31.
Stat_heat: ?
Terrain modifiers: ?
Base morale: Min 0, max ?. Default usage.
Charge distance: ?
Fire delay: ?
Turns to build: Min 0, max 244. Experimentation, experimentation. Extra ignored.

map_regions.txt
Resources per province: Min 0?, max 9? Assumption, experimentation. Extras ignored?

map_regions.tga
Number of provinces: Min ?, max 200. Experimentation.
Number of landmasses: Min ?, max 20. JeromeGrasdyke. Effects for extras unknown (not CTD).

Models
Number of faces/polys: Min ?, max 20,000 (for campaign-map models).

[khelvan]

There is a limit of 245 models - all entries in descr_model_battle.txt count toward this limit. So that is unit models, officers, mounts, animals, et al.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

The unit limit was raised it in the 1.2 patch to 500, but I'm not sure about the models limit... it may have been kept in order to keep the tex memory requirements under control.

[eadingas]

What about number of provinces?

[khelvan]

Jerome, any chance we can persuade you to open up that model limit as well? If we want to overload the memory, to let us make our own mistakes?

On the unit limit being raised - beautiful!

Edit: And what eadingas said - we've hit a wall at 199. It would be great if we could move past that :)

[JeromeGrasdyke]

The other limits (200 provinces, 255 unit models, 20 landmasses) have been left in place, and it's unlikely that there will be another patch which will change those. Oh well...

[Orb]

Isn't the minimum hp value 1- It would be pointless to have anything lower

[khelvan]

We tested the limit for models, it is actually 255, not 245.

[Simetrical]

Okay, thanks!

-Simetrical

[Red Harvest]

Missile attack minimum = 1 (at 0 the unit is displayed as out of ammo when in batlle--or at least it was in 1.1, so you had no missile attack.) Also, missile attack is converted to integers. If you enter 1.5 you get a 1. 0.5 = 0. -1 = 0. I determined these from play testing.

Minimum number of men = 6, but mounts can be lower for elephants at least. This can be used to reduce the size of elephant units. (For forest_elephants the number of crew must be double the number of elephants to go smaller...else RTW adds extra elephants when you test them on the field. e.g. 6,4 is the same as 6,6; but 8,4 gives reduced number of elephants by 1/3 and an extra crewman on each. Haven't tried 6,2 or 6,1 but the Oliphants work with only 2.)

Mass works up to 100 at least (Oliphant). I have used 99 before in my own tests. Haven't tried higher.

[eadingas]

Minimum number of dogs and pigs is 2 per handler.

[Epistolary Richard]

Mass works up to 100 at least (Oliphant). I have used 99 before in my own tests. Haven't tried higher.

Where is the mass for the oliphant listed? Export_descr_unit only lists the riders' mass...

Edit: descr_mount.txt, ta muchly RH.

[CPT Worsham]

We tested the limit for models, it is actually 255, not 245.

So with the model limit at 255 while the unit limit is 500 the only reach 500 units is to use replica models and have a bunch of different look alike units with different names. Does this make any sense???

[Teleklos Archelaou]

RE: Limits in:

export_descr_buildings.txt
Overall building tree number: Min ?, max 64. Experimentation. Extras CTD (error: "Settlement in [X] region has not been given [X] a core building. Any settlements above village level must have an appropriate core building! This settlement is level 1, and should have a level 0 core building.").
Levels per building tree: Min 1, max 5. Assumption, experimentation. Extras ignored.
--------------------------------
Apparently you can have multiple buildings in each "level" also; I've inserted additional buildings without putting them on the "levels" line and got them to show up. They still function, *but* I've been unable to get the images (constructed) and the icons to work for any other than the first one listed in that level. All the ones other than the first one just use the generic building images. I don't know the limit to the number of buildings you can put in for a level, but I had about 6 or 7 in there and they were showing up in game, just not with graphics. Of course it could have led to problems down the road in the game, but I didn't test it out very long before scrapping it.

[Nero]

Yes multiple buildings under one buildingcomplex is possible.

(a bit off-topic but...)
To make other images than that roman barracks appear, open descr_ui_buildings.txt.
Now fill in the last name of the new buildings (ie: temple_of_battle_shrine)
and type shrine after it. Now it will use the image that is meant for shrine.
This applies to other buildings too.
To make a building with a different last name than ie muster_field have the muster field image, you can fill in this in descr_ui_buildings:

your_building_name muster_field

hope this'll help you

[Hans Kloss]

Another question:

are the unit names (sound files) called on the battlefield also hardcoded ?

[Nero]

No they arent
They can be changed in files that have 'sound' in their name
Don't know which one for units, but it can be changed

[Hans Kloss]

I did try but without luck,despite editing various text files,unpacking IDX's and adding wave files for new units

[pwijnands]

Maximum missile range depends on the range in export_descr_units.txt and on the velocity in descr_projectile_new.txt.
I copied big_boulder and copied it as big_boulder_2, I doubled the velocity and my onagers could targets on the other side of a large town.

[Tykell]

What's the men per unit limit as of now for cinematic purposes?

[Simetrical]

243, with 60-man size specified in EDU.txt, Huge size, and three officers. I think there's some convoluted workaround, but I don't know if it'd work for cinematics.

-Simetrical

[Tykell]

Cinematics are just battle replays, so shoot.

[Simetrical]

It used to be 300 but became 500 with the 1.2 patch. I guess I forgot to update the first paragraph!

-Simetrical

[Simetrical]

Added this:

Hidden resources: Min 1?, max 63 or 64 (not sure which). Extras cause a CTD, not including rome causes a CTD (I think), not including italy prevents Marian reforms (I think). Experimentation, experimentation. But see here for a way to overcome the limitation.

[Dol Guldur]

I have a texture of a little over 1000K (512X512) and it seems to be too much for my "not bad" graphics card/PC memory. I get the "insufficient memory to load texture set" message (or whatever it says!)

Anyone got more research/comments on this?

[Epistolary Richard]

The recruitment panel can only show a maximum of 32 units (not including agents), so if you have more than 32 units recruitable in a specific place and a specific faction you're likely to get a CTD.

[Simetrical]

The recruitment panel can only show a maximum of 32 units (not including agents), so if you have more than 32 units recruitable in a specific place and a specific faction you're likely to get a CTD.

Added.

[Frans Ubberdork]

--I have a texture of a little over 1000K (512X512) and it seems to be too much for ----my "not bad" graphics card/PC memory. I get the "insufficient memory to load ---------texture set" message (or whatever it says!)

--Anyone got more research/comments on this?

I have had this happen while editing models in the descr_model_strat file. What happened to me is that RTW looks at the .cas file you have selected..lets say gondor_ king.cas and looks at the .cas file and see's the texture file you used to make the original texture say gondor_king.psd tries to load it along with any other textures you associated with it in the strat file and will give you that error or another error that says unable to load texture set. there might be other causes but that is what my trouble was caused by.

another cause I have found was if you add a model to the descr_model_battle file and give it the mercenary trait(in the unit stats) but forgot to associate a merc skin it will load the texture file you associated with the .cas while editing in (3dsmax or whatever you use).
These may not be the problem but these HAVE happened to me.

thomas

[dhague]

Actually this is about a "hard-coded trigger", but I think it fits here better than elsewhere. After lots of experimenting, I believe that there is a hidden hard-coded script trigger condition of "faction family generals count less than 60% of faction settlements count" where this trigger condition is a pre-test for triggering birth events (subject to fertility level factors) , triggering Adoption events, and triggering Man_of_the_Hour events (subject to successful battles). Adoption events seem to occur primarily if there are no successful MOH events in the 1-2 turns after this hard-coded trigger condition is met. After multiple test campaigns, it appears that meeting this hard-coded trigger condition is the only way of getting a "well populated family tree".

Just another minor contribution that will probably be invalidated by RTW/BI.

[Simetrical]

Yep, this is known. Although you might want to edit your post, the board hates pointy brackets for some reason.