I can't really complain about R:TW

[KeePah]

Greetings everyone,

I have read different posts there people complains about bugs and unrealistic things and so on in Rome: Total War. Well I say, remember the old RTS games! And to the young ones I can tell you about the first RTS game created. ”North & South” on Amiga500.

North & South was the coolest game I ever have played in that time, it was really huge armies on a huge battlefield. The battlefield were one screen large and a maximum army were 3 canons, 1 unit of infantery with 6 soldiers, 1 unit of cav with 3 soldiers. After the first 6 soldiers and 3 cav soldiers was killed it came reinforcement of 6 new infantery soldiers and 3 new cav soldiers and one more each if they got killed. The corpses didn’t even fade from the battlefield it was amazing for a game in that time! The key commands for controlling the army was the arrow keys and the Alt keys for switching from artillery to infantery to cavalery and the space key for fire.

I dreamed dreams about games like S:TW, M:TW and R:TW in those old days. I really enjoy playing them and if I experience a bug or a bad thing I just think back on the old games! Rome: Total War is a dream come true and I am in the clouds with a big smile when I play it!

I can’t complain!



Sorry for bad english, be safe and happy playing! /Johan

[Blitz]

woah finally another guy tHat doesn't whine and moaning about R:TW, to me it rox. before you guys whine you guys better prove that you can do better than R:TW.

[ToranagaSama]

Why does anyone have to prove anything? CA proved that THEY could do better with Shogun and Medieval.

[Byzantine Prince]

Graphically speaking RTW is far suprerior to it's pretecessors.

[Colovion]

Graphically speaking RTW is far suprerior to it's pretecessors.

fancy dressing only works for so long, just look at Doom 3

[Duke John]

I just played a few custom battles and the AI charged his entire battle line at mine. Even though I had given plenty of missile units it disregarded the use of long range weapons and tested their worth by charging them headlong. This means that defensive battles are utter garbage since the AI does not have even the slightest idea of tactics.

In M:TW in S:TW however the AI did use their missile units and softened my units before charging in.

So please do not come here stating that R:TW rocks.

However we will see how good the game gets with the new patch. If missile units still charge in, passing their own heavy infantry, then it will be then end of R:TW for me.

[Colovion]

and with vanilla

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

AI seems to have a very decent idea of its own power: I have seen AI charging head on, and that's mostly when it got better unit/ melee power... I have also seen AI doing nothing and standing there, and it's when it's not very confident it can win with melee.

I wonder if the AI was "knowing" about the mother of all bugs and charging along with missile just because they had higher melee attack.

My main issue with AI is that, when it is overpowered by human player and got less unit of less quality, with lesser melee stat, it does not make the best of it. It somehow stand there doing nothing (and it get shot in the meantime) instead of trying to get a better defensive position.

As far as I can remember, AI has always been horrendous with missile warfare, even in MTW. Actually that was a reason for toning down missile in MTW; make AI more challenging by underpowering units it does not use well.

Louis,

[MacBeth]

And the damn battlefields all feel constricting and the unit speeds make initial troop deployment a hurried click fest.

[AquaLurker]

The only complain I had about the ai is that it keeps attacking my 1000 strong armies and settlements with units as small as 240 men...

Other than that I feel that some ai's should have 5-8 stars generals (like the arabs and byzantine in MTW) to make their troops harder and more challenging to fight against.

[Butcher]

Yes, that's true, having them start out with high * generals would be good. I haven't noticed if this is the case yet. Oh, and I had my first CTD last night

[derF]

OMG, someone that has no complaints?!!???!?

RTW, is fun but sooo mediocre.

[drone]

AI seems to have a very decent idea of its own power: I have seen AI charging head on, and that's mostly when it got better unit/ melee power... I have also seen AI doing nothing and standing there, and it's when it's not very confident it can win with melee.

I wonder if the AI was "knowing" about the mother of all bugs and charging along with missile just because they had higher melee attack.

I think this is exactly what is going on. I believe the AI compares the attack values when deciding to charge, and uses the bugged value (missile value) to do it. Aside from the bug itself, there is not much wrong with this, since it uses the missile value in melee anyway. If this is the case, when the patch comes out we should see different behavior.

[Turbo]

I guess the newer players like the eyecandy and compared to other strategy games like Alexander, yeah, I guess RTW impresses.

For some of us that have been playing the series since STW, RTW is lacking. What I find insulting is that CA releases 2 patches to fix problems that would have been caught by the sloppiest QC out there, then tells its customers that there will be no more patches. That is BS.

[Old Celt]

Turbo,

As I've said before, CA knew about the bugs. It's impossible to work on a project like that and not know about the more obvious ones. The decision on the release timetable was probably arbitrarily made based on financial desires and not at all in the hands of CA.

This second patch is comprehensive. It won't fix everything, but it should fix the major stuff. They will undoubtedly have an expansion pack, which is really just a glorified patch that they charge you for. It's SOP, so we can accept it or not, as best suits us.

There's alot more to RTW than "eye candy". The algorithm of using many factor influenced morale to determine routing conditions is a huge step forward from the "fight until we get X% casualties and then automatically flee" algorithm used in previous games, for example.

I find it completely unfair of you to make judgements against CA BEFORE the freakin patch is even available for evaluation! Can't you wait to complain until you actually have complaint content???

[Duke John]

I believe the AI compares the attack values when deciding to charge, and uses the bugged value (missile value) to do it. Aside from the bug itself, there is not much wrong with this

Not exactly like that. I did some tests with opposite armies completely the same and AI armies that have better/worse missile troops. In all the cases the missile units passed their heavy infantry comrades (you know the ones who should take the brunt of the attack) try to charge my line, got shot and flee before they reached my units.

I changed some stats to see wether it helped and but I can't fix the AI behaviour. It is badly coded and I doubt that it will be fixed.

I find it completely unfair of you to make judgements against CA BEFORE the freakin patch is even available for evaluation! Can't you wait to complain until you actually have complaint content?

I have every right to complain if I buy a product that doesn't live up to expectations and promises.

[Butcher]

I have every right to complain if I buy a product that doesn't live up to expectations and promises.

I think the 'expectations' for this game have been impossible for any company that wants to stay afloat to achieve.

[Old Celt]

"I have every right to complain if I buy a product that doesn't live up to expectations and promises."


Oh you most certainly do. But in this case we have a complaint before the merchandise has even been received! Isn't that a bit different from complaining about the CURRENT state of the game?!?? You and Turbo seem to be confusing my response to mean: Shut up and go away. My response means exactly the following: Cry all you want, it's your right but it won't change a thing. And if you are going to complain about something before you even have it to evaluate, that's utter nonsense!

I detest pettiness, and before you whine that you have the right to be petty, YES, oh for God's sake, by all means, you have the right. You have the right to be illogical, unreasonable, and unrealistic. And I have the right to be content, happy, logical, and cogent. I guess it's all about choices.

Let's get right down to it: the people complaining the most have no intention of quietly wandering back to MTW, STW, or Pong. They are still here because deep down, they want to like the game and still have hope for the patch to make it likeable for them. Well give the patch a chance already!!

You have every right to complain, but this board IS NOT the complaints department for CA. You should make your complaints to them, or in other words: Tell someone who cares! Ahh, I should have known better than to respond to this thread anyway because it was an obvious troll that has been allowed to procreate instead of locked down. What possible value does this complaining have?

[Duke John]

Please read what I am writing. I am not talking about the patch. I am talking about the current state of the battlefield AI that was included with the merchandise that I bought.

I haven't complained much, and now I start after realizing how poor the battlefield AI really is. If the patch is not able to fix it then it will also be final complaint. The purpose of my complaining is to get people comfortable with me being gone if the patch does not improve the game alot. But what would you care since I am just being petty.

[Colt374]

Let's get right down to it: the people complaining the most have no intention of quietly wandering back to MTW, STW, or Pong. They are still here because deep down, they want to like the game and still have hope for the patch to make it likeable for them. Well give the patch a chance already!!

I just HAD to respond to this :

Everyone that bought the game wants to like it, or they would not have brought it. (obviously). The point everyone is making is that the game is poor without the patch, and the simple fact is that if you buy a game you expect it to be working as expected and is relatively bug-free. RTW pre-patch is neither of these. Whether a patch is coming or not does not change that fact.... Think of all the PC-illiterates out there that don't even know about patches and internet forums, (and there are still a lot of them), what must they think of RTW when they run into the bugs and bizarre gameplay?

You have every right to complain, but this board IS NOT the complaints department for CA. You should make your complaints to them, or in other words: Tell someone who cares! Ahh, I should have known better than to respond to this thread anyway because it was an obvious troll that has been allowed to procreate instead of locked down. What possible value does this complaining have?

Ohhh PLEAZZZEE..... Is this the Totalwar.com forum, where every negative thread gets locked? Should a person be spurned because his opinions do not match what is wanted? As you said, people have the right to complain. Locking threads with negative comments removes that right.
Making negative comments does not automatically make one a troll.

And incidentally, have you tried making a complaint to CA, or any other game maker/publisher? Most people will agree that you rarely get a constructive response, if any. Of course, if you complain on CA's Totalwar.com forums, your thread will just get locked anyway, if not deleted, and your complaints will vanish. Essentially, that leaves you with no offical outlet to voice your complaints if you wish to voice your displeasure.

People have the right to voice their opinions anyway they like. You have the right not to read those complaints. You also have the right not to complain about people complaining. Do us all a favour... exercise that right.

Colt.

[King Edward]

I enjoyed MTW so much for so long that Rome was a big dissapointment for me, sure it looks nice, but it just doesnt feel the same as as MTW I still play MTW:VI and Even STW every now and again where as i have only played one campagne of RTW before it stayed on the shelf (I even played dawn of war for longer than RTW!). Hopfully the Patch will make the game better but until then I'm waiting for Hearts of Iron 2.

[MacBeth]

Colt 374 - 'Ohhh PLEAZZZEE..... Is this the Totalwar.com forum, where every negative thread gets locked? Should a person be spurned because his opinions do not match what is wanted? As you said, people have the right to complain. Locking threads with negative comments removes that right.'


Whenever I stop by that .com site those poofters make my blood boil. Full of the thought police closing customer requests for info & kids 'owning' each other - shame they don't own a grammer book !

[Old Celt]

"I just HAD to respond to this :

Everyone that bought the game wants to like it, or they would not have brought it. (obviously). The point everyone is making is that the game is poor without the patch, and the simple fact is that if you buy a game you expect it to be working as expected and is relatively bug-free. "


Everyone? No, just a very few. But I think you have a point there that the people complaining the most all have in common that they somehow think they represent a numerical majority of players. They don't. I think a large part of the problem here is about expectations. When you say: "working as expected", do you really mean: "working as I expected". Maybe "functioning as designed" would be accurate, you'll have to clarify.

I don't agree with you one bit that RTW is a poor game. What, did you think all the game reviewers were drugged or bribed? How about all the positive reviews you can read on any number of sites about RTW. I read readers reviews before buying, and no one said it was a poor game. I honestly think you don't realize what a small minority you are; such a small minority in fact, that no company is going to go out of their way to try to please you. Yeah, the game has bugs. Name me 1 piece of software with over a thousand lines of code that doesn't. The bugs will be dealt with in the patch, and what's so unusual about that?

As far as the behavior on the official website, would you create a great product, get rave reviews, then let a few miscreants come to that site and do the equivalent of peeing on your leg in front of God and everyone? Of course not. If anybody really believes the game is poor, then they should make the effort to get a snail mail address or actual phone number and contact a living breathing person at CA and/or ActiVision and tell them so, and demand their $50 back while they're at it. That's what I would do. Then you could lurk, or complain further on these forums while waiting for others to playtest the patch and decide what to do next.

[Duke John]

My big issue with R:TW (one that I didn't have with M:TW, hence my expectations):

I want to mod R:TW, I am thinking of recreating the Wars of the Roses, the English Civil War, Napoleonic Wars, the Dark Ages, or remaking S:TW. All would be possible with M:TW-VI with satisfactory results. But R:TW has introduced superious graphics so I thought that I would be buying an excellent engine. Afterall CA said that the game would be even more moddable than M:TW.

The problem with all the above periods is that missile units did play a significant role. So I can make all kind of pretty units and setup a game against the AI but then only to notice that the AI just charges everything my way with apparently no regard of tactics, effectiveness of units. I would be left with great dissapointment as all the hours put into modding are put to waste by a bad AI.

I am analyzing and drawing conclusions if you find that complaining and waste of forumspace then I doubt that have the right to say how much trouble goes into making a program.

But not to worry, I am 30 minutes from finding out how good 1.2 patch is. Either I will be apologizing for doubting CA or saying my goodbyes.

Edit: Not really worth a new post, so :

[Mikeus Caesar]

fancy dressing only works for so long, just look at Doom 3

Too true. One of my friends said that Doom 3, looks amazing, but you play it for an hour and eventually get bored of it.

this board IS NOT the complaints department for CA.

Pah, it might as well be. You send a complaint to CA, it's ignored and you get an automated response message saying 'thank you for you comments on our game: Rome: Total War, we appriciate your comments and will get back to you as soon as possible. Maybe in 2007.' Now here, you post a complaint and the only difference is that you don't get a nice automated response. And talking about the CA complaints department, there's a joke going around the Gaming community at my school that CA's complaints department takes up a small third world country.