Discussion of Praetorian recruitment (from Ludus Magna)

**Bob the Insane** · 02-28-2005, 22:19

I think a distinction needs to be made... There is a lot of comparison between the RTW units and Imperial era Roman units yet the game is pre-empire... We have to accept that the Praetorians refered to are most definately not the Emperor's Praetorian Guard, they do not exist yet... They are the Cohors Praetoria, the body guards of Generals and the elite cohort within a legion (whether this applies after the birth of the empire I have no idea)...

As such I think it is perfectly acceptable for them to built as per the way the game runs now, does this sound reasonable?

As for the Urban Cohorts, I think that the fact that they were rare and a bit mysterious lead CA to use them as the elite Roman unit and I am in favor of limiting where they can be build to reasonably historic locations (much as many of the other factions' elite units are limited), possibly even just Rome for game play reasons...

**drone** · 02-28-2005, 23:03

Is there any problem with multiple building requirements for units? It seems strange that you can recruit a Praetorian Cohort in a city without at least an Army Barracks. Could the line be changed to:

Code:

recruit "roman praetorian cohort i"  0  requires factions { roman, } and marian_reforms and building_present_min_level barracks army_barracks

Haven't tried it, but I assume that you can use the building_present_min_level function for recruiting. Does the AI have problems adjusting to multi-building requirements?

**player1** · 02-28-2005, 23:16

Although if you already have army barracks and imperial palace, someone would wonder why haven't you build 5th level barracks for Urbans that are better then Praethorians.

**drone** · 02-28-2005, 23:23

Originally Posted by player1

Although if you already have army barracks and imperial palace, someone would wonder why haven't you build 5th level barracks for Urbans that are better then Praethorians.

Understood. But a city that expands to the Imperial Palace doesn't necessarily have to have any military capability. The Imp Palace gets built, and all of the sudden you can build Praetorians with no military buildings at all? Seems wrong. You ought to have the capability to build at least a Legionary Cohort before you can put together a Praetorian.

**BeeSting** · 03-01-2005, 00:26

The way they are in this game are just fantasies. There should've been a disclaimer with the game.

**The Stranger** · 03-01-2005, 09:28

well that's why it is a game and a game only, it isn't a hystory book, but i do regret it.

**Shadar** · 03-01-2005, 13:46

The Praetorian guards were originally created by Augustus as the highest an Italian soldier could go. They were the Emperor's personal bodyguard, and were ORIGNALLY based in towns around Rome itself. However, under the Praetorian Prefect Sejanus in the reign of Tiberius, they were moved into one large camp right outside Rome. After the reforms of Septimus Severus, the Praetorian guards were not a sole Italian force but its membership was the highest point of any soldier's career. This is why the Praetorian Guards became a mostly provincial force (with lots of Illyrians), since the Danubian border had been by far the most active (in terms of wars) within the last century, and the legions based along the Danube were the best seasoned veterans within the Empire. The Praetorian Guards did not participate often in the border wars, but went to battle when the Emperor himself travelled to war.

The Praetorian cohorts in the game, however, appear to be simply the bodyguard of the commander of an Republican army, and i think i remember a reference that Caesar had one.

The Urban Cohorts were also an Italian force, but did not have the prestige that the Praetorian Cohorts had. They were unique in that they were the ONLY force under the command of a Senator (the City Prefect) besides the quasi-military Vigiles (The Watch, the freedman firefighting/nightwatch force in Rome), with the rest of the legions under the command of Legati picked by the Emperor.

The Equites Singulares appears to be the German Bodyguard of the Emperor, that was picked from cavalry auxilia.. I'm not sure when they were disbanded, but it was for some reason or another.

Sinner: Vespasian didn't actually "reduce" the Praetorian Guard from the 16 of Vitellius. Vitellius was the governor of one of the Germanies in the Year of the Four Emperors civil war, and Vespasian was the eventual victor. After Vitellius defeated the Praetorian picked candidate, Otho, he disbanded the Praetorian guards and filled it with the soldiers within the Rhine legions. Vespasian disbanded this Praetorian guard and reformed it at its previous levels.

Note: I mainly studied post Republican era Roman history, and only did this from memory.. feel free to correct any mistakes i made..

**Sinner** · 02-28-2005, 23:27

The game does cover the Imperial era to a limited extent, after all it ends at 14AD & Augustus became emperor effectively in 23BC. As a note, the Praetorians were formed in about 31BC so they do fall within the timeframe the game covers.

Given the existance of the earlier Cohors Praetori as first introduced by Scipio Africanus, perhaps a pre-Marian version might be worthwhile. These could be based upon the Princepes, with their stats suitably boosted to account for their elite status, and would be recruitable anywhere. Once the Reforms occur, the current Praetorians would replace them, being buildable only in Italy to match their historical recruitment pool. OK, the historical timing of the Reforms and the creation of the Praetorians don't quite match, but the Reforms are the only viable trigger event we have available.

The Urbans were introduced in 13BC by Augustus and aren't really mysterious at all, their just not as well known by the general public since they don't have the glamor and political notoriety of being the emperor's guards. It's also noteworthy that in second century AD they came under the control of the Praetorian prefects, effectively being absorbed, which is a further indication of their lower ranking. Unlike the Praetorians, the Urbans did survive the defeat at the Milvian Bridge in 312AD, but they were later reduced to a non-military workforce.

Katank, the Praetorians started as 9 cohorts of approximately 500 men, were increased to 12 sometime before 47AD, then 16 cohorts of 1000 men in 69AD by Vitellius. Vespasian reduced them back down to the original 9 cohorts of 500, then Domitian added a tenth, presumably so that they'd be effectively as Legion strength. When Severus disbanded and then reformed them using provincial troops he increased their size to 1000 per cohort again.

A further note about the Praetorians: they were considered equitatae, that is a mixed infantry and cavalry force. If they followed a similar organisation to auxilia with the same designation then they'd have had 6 centuries of infantry and 3 30-man turmae of cavalry. Apparently there's some scholarly debate on the subject, but these seem a more likely origin for the Praetorian Cavalry rather than the equites singulares Augusti. The latter are a completely seperate corp to the Praetorians and are more properly represented by the bodyguard of your faction leader, with other generals' bodyguards effectively being equites singulares.