RTR....how the game should have been

[Darius]

I recently downloaded the latest version of RTR, 5.2 I believe it is. Started up a new Roman Campaign (Thank God they have a unified Rome...that three family deal pissed me off to no end) and was immediately awe struck. Not only does there map extend from Ireland to Pakistan, as well as extending farther north to include the lands of Scandanavia and Scotland (Caledonia), but they have actually thrown in so many new cities as well. Plus they put in a new color scheme on the map, which makes it much easier to see who owns what.

Once I had finished admiring the map I decided to go about taking over the nearby settlements to consolidate my dominance over the peninsula. Apparently the Greeks had the same idea...So there I am, attacked by the one and only Pyrhuss of Epirus, caught entirely with my pants down. As soon as my forces had been divided he had marched in and effectively exterminated almost a half of my total armed forces in one blow. I was stunned. Due to the tweaks the modders had made, my usual tactic of simply standing on the high ground and hurling my pila at the slowly approaching hoplites was no longer quite nearly as effective. Now the shields of the hoplites are much more effective, just as they should be, and they kept marching forward. In the mean time, his elephants and cavalry went to opposite flanks of my army, forcing me to split my triarii to deal with them. To cut a long story short, my general was killed by Pyrhus's own bodyguard, my hastati and principes were smacked around and fled, my velites were killed almost to a man, and my triarii I withdrew to prevent any further unnecessary losses.

After this he started sieging my easternmost settlement, who was garrisoned by two Roman Levies (Town Militia) and what was left of my shattered army. My other army was then quickly recalled and marched towards the endangered city. Pyrhus attacked me once again, but this time, I had a somewhat larger force than before (though still outnumbered) and his cavalry were greatly reduced thanks to the last attack made by my triarii before they were ordered to retreat. Now I focused near all of my attention on bringing down his accursed elephants. I succeeded, but at a great price to both our armies. While I had swarmed his elephants and defeated them, and my velites had managed to defeat his archers and most of his peltasts, the battle between our mainline infantry had gone to him. Once more I was forced to withdrawl from the field, with only a quarter of my initial forces remaining. Fortunately the new recruits were assembled, bringing me back up to one full stack army, though most were without any chevrons or upgrades.

I hired a local Samnite warrior company and marched to battle once more, but Pyrhus had withdrawn to retrain his troops and to recieve a new wave or reinforcements from Greece! Now he had some new peltasts, some Athenian Hoplites, and a unit of Armoured hoplites added to his numbers. Upon realizing this, I decided that simply defending wasnt enough of an advantage, I needed something more. So I hid my forces in a forest by the mountain pass between Tarentum and Croton, and awaited him there. Down he marched in search of my men, and was ambushed by my men. With the bulk of his forces surrounded, pelted from both directions by javelin and pila, his forces crumbled. Victory was finally mine!

While I reveled in my conquest of Southern Italy, Greek diplomats begged for a ceasefire, and I managed to acquire both trade rights and a healthy sum of denarii as reperations. However not all things are going so well. While I had managed to acquire alliances with the Dacians, Germans, Thracians, and Macedonians, the Gauls seemed intent on expanding their holdings. A giant Gallic army is laying waste to Ariminum (currently Rebel city) and it is only a matter of time before they set their sights upon my nearby lands...

[The Stranger]

did you killed him

[Akka]

Did it strike you as well, that you are describing more or less exactly what really happened to Pyrrhus ? ^^

Two pyrrhic victories (^^), and forced to retreat because his armies were worn out, while Romans continued to recruit more men. Funny when a game follow history like this ^^

[The Stranger]

yes, it's funny but i hope he didn't killed him so he can be killed in a streetfight

[Darius]

Pyrhuss escaped into the city actually, he was one of the few to make it, I had thought I'd killed him but it was just a captain or something. He ended up falling in a desperate attempt to hold the Tarentum town square. At the moment im securing the last two towns in southern italy, then I hope to push the gauls past the Alps, then sue for peace, leaving well garrisoned forts in the mountain passes for insurance. After that...the Greeks will pay for the Roman blood they spilled a hunderd times over.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Wow. You make RTR seem quite good....i might get it...

[caesar44]

i am playing rtr from v. 1 to 5.3
thanks the moders for this mod it is great !!!
it is so historically true , the provinces , the towns , the battles , the map , the skins
i could not imagine playing the original game - pigs (?!?!?!) , 3 roman factions (in 270 bce ???} , 1 city in sicily (why ?) , parthians (in 270 bce ???) , no greeks in italy , and more and more
i say - play rtr and enjoy !!![COLOR=DarkRed]

[Turbo]

I wish I could say something as glowing as everyone. After installing and reinstalling the 5.2 mod and the hot fixes, I couldn't get past the third turn without a ctd. It is absolute rubbish that a Mod this buggy gets dumped out in this condition without any playtesting. God, don't people have any pride in workmanship?

[lars573]

RTR 5.2 won't work with RTW 1.2. The changes to the Marian reforms are what is causing your CTD's.

[Braccius Augustus]

Pick up the 5.3 patch from RTR!!

[Titus Livius]

Forgive my ignorance, but where exactly can these upgrades be found?

[drone]

Forgive my ignorance, but where exactly can these upgrades be found?

Not sure which one you mean, so here's both:

The Rome Total War v1.2 patch can be found on the Rome:TotalWar site:
http://www.totalwar.com/
It's got a link at the top of the page.

RTR (Rome Total Realism) can be found at:
http://www.rometotalrealism.com/

[The Stranger]

to be honest, RTR sucked, in three turns it CDT for 3 different reasons, i stopped playing after that. the greek skins sucked, just as what you did to the generals. what you've done to the Egyptians is great though.

[Darius]

I have yet to experience a SINGLE CTD. If there is a problem then you should make sure you have the correct versions downloaded.

So far I'm steadily expanding, but every single turn that I end I'm on the absolute edge of my seat. The Gauls are refusing to put an end to the war (turns out they have plenty of massive armies yet to come...) and are currently sieging Massillia I believe its called. In the northen passes of the Alps, Gallic raiding armies make occasional excursions into my lands, but my defending garrisons are able to expel them, though with moderate casualties that are starting to take a toll.

The Greeks are beginning to expand swiftly through Illyricum, and once they took Segistica they attacked Aquilea. Fortunately I had an army nearby (planning to put an end to the Gallic threat to the North) that was able to repel them, and another army after that. What remains of my army managed to (just barely) capture Segestica, and the only reason they haven't been stomped is because my faithful Macedonian allies have begun a siege on Athens.

In order to further divert Greek armies, I landed a large army with which to take Appolonia. However, over the course of three years over five thousand roman soldiers have died defending its lands, and over eight thousand Greek insurgents have paid with their lives for attempting to retake it.

In Sicily the Greeks and the Carthaginians are raging for sole posession of the island, and untold numbers have been lost in the struggle. Should Carthage win, they will become a looming threat to my power. Should the Greeks win, they have a new staging point for invasion upon my homelands.

Thanks to my ever wandering diplomats, I have discovered that the Brits have made landfall, and they are most definitely pissed off at the Gauls and Germans for some unknown reason. I quickly allied with them since the Germans had recently abandoned our alliance in order to ally with Gaul, and hopefully our combined forces will allow us to break the backs of the Gallic hegemony.

Unfortunately, while most of the future of my surrounding region remains uncertain, I have discovered rather unsettling news from the far off lands of the Middle East. The Ptolemaic Empire and the Selecuid Empire are waging a titanic struggle, throwing massive armies at one another. Slowly the Ptolemaic Empire has been conquering the Selucids, and joining them in their fight are the Parthians, Armenians, and Pontus. The Ptolemaic lands have become vast, and their armies numberless. One day not too far from now, they will need to be dealt with, but just how many countless lives will be snuffed out in the process? There shall be a day of reckoning, that much is certain, but who shall prove the stronger is yet to be seen.

[Bob the Insane]

Nice posts Darius, you have total convinced me to put my own amature modding on hold to give RTR a go...

[Mikeus Caesar]

I will download this as soon as i have finished my almighty greek campaign!! You make it sound so good!!!! Wait a sec....are you an advertiser for RTR?

[Bob the Insane]

whoa...

Playing as the romans it is 269BC, 22 turns into the game... I have just finshed kicking the Greeks out of Italy. I have captured all of 3 provinces (1 rebel and 2 Greek) and fought numerous battles... At one point when I had only 3 cities 2 of them where besieged and all 3 where blockaded and we had only one understrength legion left. I have lost an entire legion in battle and have had two major victories against the Greeks smashing their armies in the field (both times saving us from disaster). I have spent most of the game so far practically broke (I can barely keep up with replacing battlefield losses let alone find the money to build anything). I live in fear of our Carthaginan or Gaulish allies turing on us while we fight the Greeks, war on two front at this point would be the end of us...

And when you compare how tiny our present holdings are both to the scale of the world map and the effort to hold on to what we have I am quite imtimidated.

Wow...

[The Stranger]

i have a problem, every time i start a campaign it CTD in the fourth turn (end of winter 279 bc) any hotfixes for this.

[Darius]

Chances are you may have installed something in the wrong order. Try doing a fresh install of RTW, then the 1.2 patch, then install 5.2, followed by 5.3 and it should be fine.

So far I've managed to slowly progress through Illyria, and the area is littered with heroic victories. Unfortunately my armies deep in Greece have made little progress, and are the only reason my armies to the north are making any headway. Wave upon wave of Greek armies crash upon my lines, and my treasury is being taxed to the limits trying to replace the losses as I retrain the battered remnants and ship over new recruits whilst trying to avoid the Greek navy that hunts my meager navy.

Recent news from the lands of Africa tell of how the Carthiginans have eliminated the Numidians. This does not bode well, as the Punic armies will now be able to focus their attentions fully outward rather than in two directions. As it stands they have captured all but Syracuse on Sicily, and their armies in Spain are holding the Iberians at bay.

The Gauls, though at one point hemmed in by both the Britons and my Romans, are now able to focus solely on me as the Britons have acquired peace with the Gallic horde and have now begun tearing through the lands of Germany. It will likely be a long time before I am able to leave the comfortably defendable passes of the Alps to bring the war to the Gauls, as my war with the Greeks is seemingly getting only more intense with each passing turn.

I recently paid my allies the Thracians to begin a war upon both the Greeks and the Dacians. So far they have only had minor skirmishes within the Greek province of Byzantium, but their armies are making a large nuisance for the numerous Dacian people, whom I hope will be too occupied with their Thracian invaders to attempt to attack my holdings along the Aegean Sea.

Now the Greeks have once again sent a diplomat to speak with me. I am about to let out a sigh of relief, only to see that they wish for me to become their Protectorate. This has left me with an intense desire to personally open the Greek King's skull to see what is making him so insane to think I would agree to these terms. He and his people shall pay for their arrogance and shall soon see his lands under the firm rule of Roman steel.

[Simetrical]

I must stress that while 5.2 was, in fact, extremely buggy, 5.3 is not. There are virtually no confirmed crash bugs in 5.3, and the only significant one is rare and can be worked around if necessary (and we haven't the foggiest clue what causes it, incidentally). 5.2 was basically an open beta, but not labeled as such—I plan to push for 6.0 to be labeled properly, as it will also doubtless not be playtested very extensively (RTR has a history of this). Yes, we have pride in our work, but it's a waste of time for us to playtest the mod when we could have others do it far more thoroughly than we possibly could. The only problem is when we don't inform them that they're playtesters.

-Simetrical

[AntiochusIII]

Hehe, I see. The Realism of the RTR Playtesting Conspiracy...

On the other hand, seeing Darius got himself beaten by the Greeks once and again (historically correct, right? Marathon? ) I think I'll give RTR a try.

Do I have to download 5.3 after 5.2 to play with Rome 1.2 or just download 5.3 immediately, without 5.2 installed?

[Ciciocle]

if i have allready installed RTR v5.1, i have to uninstall it before upgrading to v5.2 and v5.3? or i could just install 1.2 patch and then RTR patches over previous version?

[Cid]

On their site they recommend a new install, followed by patch 1.2, followed by RTR 5.2 and then 5.3. I had trouble downloading the file initially (got a "Corrupted File" message) but downloaded the Get Right utility (they provide a link to it on the FAQ part of the site-it's free) and it worked A-OK.

As far as I'm concerned, this mod has completely rehabilitated RTW- both historically and in game play terms. As Rome there's a significant (as well as historical) Greek threat to the south and other factions such as Carthage are far more formidable! Things tend to unfold closer to the way that they actually did...I had my own Phyrric battle with Phyrus and his merry men as per Darius above! Fought in woods, barely lost (damn trees) then built my remaining forces back up and kicked the Greeks out of Southern Italy- "Take what's left of your pride and get out!", etc. During the battle, two units of Triarii and about 1 and a half Phalanxes slugged it out with neither side routing for over 10 minutes which DID NOT (in my experience) happen pre mod, so every aspect of the game seems greatly improved...I like the new main screen too!

There's really no downside that I can see. Those who haven't already oughta get it!

[Bob the Insane]

I have now reached 250 and have only just secured the land that the 4 Roman factions start with in the un-modded game!!

The exceptions are that I have taken Corsica and Sardinia but hold no land on Sicily yet. Sicily is still divided between Carthage, the Greeks and Rebels.

The conflict with Greece has tailed off abd their other conflicts have forced them into accepting a ceasefire and the reopening of trade with us. Dispite some naval skirmishing a peace been maintained with the Gauls. With a lot of prompting by the Senate we started out campaign against Carthage who up to the start of the conflict had been a staunch ally assisting us in some naval battles. I started by building up a new legion and making some rediculous diplmatic demands on Carthage and canceling our alliance and other treaties when they refused. I then invaded Corsica, which fell after a short battle with our legion. Having reinforced our army with a large mercenary contingent and another general we moved on to Sardinia. All was going well but I was uneasy, Carthage was highly rated as a military nation but we had so far encountered nothing but levies and militias. Then a large Carthaginian naval force appeard off the coast and deposited a large Carthaginian army on Sardinia, easily equal in numbers to our deployed legion and mercenaries and containing large numbers of cavalry. The battles that followed were very bloody with large numbers of casualties on both sides, but Roman morale was stronger and armies of Carthage were cut down fleeing the field.

Thing has not all gone our way however. A new legion was rasied and sent to invade Sicily under the command of a young and ambitious general. While besieging a Carthaginian settle the legion was attack but the large army Carthage had been maintaining on the island. The battle initially went well for the Romans with the Carthaginian infantry being routed but the overconfident Roman troops over extended in pursuit and the substantual Carthaginian cavalry on the field attacked, routed and cut down the now isolated Roman troops. By the time the Romans had regrouped the bulk of carthage's infantry had rallied and turned on the now hopeless outnumbered Romans.

60 turns into the game and I have only just got out of italy. I am forced to maintain my navy as the enemies navies are both active and dangerous and often loaded down with troops. Money is no longer the problem it was. In fact with all the extra provinces in Italy I am positively rolling in the stuff. But the increased build times and depopulation brought on by constant war means I don't have very much to spend the money on!!

[Darius]

Currently in my Campaign, I have left well enough alone with the mammoth sized Carthigian Empire and am working furiously to put an end to the Greeks while holding the thrice damned gauls at bay. I was able to take two of their settlements to the north east of Italy, but upon sending a fresh wave of about 650 some hastati/principes/triarrii to take care of the third and final settlement that lies almost directly north of Italy, my troops found themselves surrounded by over 2000 bloodthirsty Gallic madmen baying for their blood. They cut me off from the pass, and to my armies backs was a river and mountains. I erected a fort and couldnt help but imagine them praying to Jupiter and Mars to protect them long enough for reinforcements to arrive.

I hastily reassembled my main northern army which had been retrained after a few nasty encounters with previous attempted Gallic invasions, and rushed them there as soon as I could, 1,600 strong. Alas, they didnt make it in time. Just one turn prior to their arrival, the Gauls had assaulted my fort. In real time I'd have to say the battle took about 45 minutes to an hour. Never in my life have I seen a battle this fierce last for so long. With nowhere to run, and the Gauls battering the walls, my legions stood firm.

Yet despite every pila being thrown and the towers mercilessly slamming arrows into their men, they swarmed in through the breaches. My hastati and principe were split up to hole up each breach, and my triarii charged and recharged into the enemy whenever they seemed to be pushing through. My general dashed back and forth along the line, giving heart and hope to his loyal Roman soldiers.

Sadly, for all their gallantry, valour, and bravery, the enemies numbers and ferocitiy proved too much. With several bloodcurdling war cries, the enemy burst through the main gate, and those who were not falling back to the center were ordered to do so on the double. My hastati formed a defensive line and managed to hold off the horde for those last precious few seconds for my men to form up along the square before being surrounded as their flanks were broken through and were surrounded. Each and every one fought to the death.

So with all hope for survival gone, my men were instead determined to make sure that when they died, it would be with as many Gallic corpses beneath their feet as possible. Upon reaching the square the Gauls let forth one final warcry, and then charged into my lines. My line held, and a few warbands fled rather than face my desperate legions a second longer. Then the enemy warlord made a thundering charge into my men, and in his wake the Gauls followed, and my men were swarmed from nearly all directions. As one final act of defiance, my General and his bodyguard personally slew their leader. My general himeself was the last to fall, fighting to the very end, and when he was finally struck down, his body lay right beside those of his brave soldiers, whom had served him with strengh and courage to the end.

In the end, the Gauls abandoned the fort, and their army of now nearly 900 men marched off upon learning that the Britons had ceased their attacks on Germany and had once again turned their eyes upon the Gauls.

Roman honor was intact, but not assuaged. My northern army assaulted the Gallic settlement and slaughtered nearly all the inhabitants.

In Greece, the war goes well for the Roman people. All lands along the Aegean are now under my rule and Sparta itself was successfully taken. Their king was defeated in battle, and the city was left untouched, and was instead occupied in order to provide a future military center from which one day many a legion and navy would spring. As I speak Athens is under siege, and I intend to either starve them out or force them to come to me. I shall not needlessy throw away any more of my mens lives when they are so far away from home and hearth.

Meanwhile, the Selucids are slowly being pushed farther and farther to the East, and the Ptolemies are growing stronger by the turn. Pontus has grown far stronger than had been expected, and has even taken Hatra ( I think ) from the Seleucids themselves. Believing this to be solely due to the Seleucids current beleaguered state, when my Armenian allies chose to make war upon the kingdom of Pontus, I chose to support the Armenians in thier endeavor and cancel my alliance with the other. Surprisingly, Pontus not only pushed the Armenians away, but have begun attacking them in their homelands. It seems that Pontus too will be a force to be reckoned with in the future, provided they dont butt heads with the Ptolemies.

With a war on two fronts, and the Senate demanding a war upon Carthage as well, my economy is always streched to the limit. I am constantly hard pressed to choose between new recruits, upgrading or constructing military buildings, or improving upon my economy. Perhaps when the battles in Greece subside my financial woes will be eased, but for now, every denarii is required to simply keep my empire alive.

[Simetrical]

Do I have to download 5.3 after 5.2 to play with Rome 1.2 or just download 5.3 immediately, without 5.2 installed?

5.3 patches 5.2, so you need both.

if i have allready installed RTR v5.1, i have to uninstall it before upgrading to v5.2 and v5.3? or i could just install 1.2 patch and then RTR patches over previous version?

It should work fine if you just install 1.2 and then 5.2/5.3.

-Simetrical

[lt1956]

Simetrical, I seen your attack over at the .com before Duck of War deleted it. to say the least I wasnt impressed. Here above you say its basically an Open Beta yet other places you say its not a beta. WHich is it? BTW I was in none of these conversations, but they were pointed out to me.

Also just to add I have never attacked you mod, or insinuated that your bugs was caused by not testing etc. There was no cause in defending your mod to slant on mine.

Lt1956

Registered User
Posts: 235
(3/7/05 10:16 pm)
Reply Re: BUGS... bugs, and mo' bogs. . .
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As a de facto RTR team member, I'd just like to mention that AFAIK, RTR is downloaded by vastly more people than SPQR, which means vastly more bugs being posted. (Unfortunately, Tyr doesn't have numbers for later versions, so all we know is that RTR 2.2 was downloaded some 12,000 times.) I have no idea if SPQR has more or fewer bugs, and if it has fewer, I have no idea whether this is because of more care, better playtesting, breaking less new ground, or some other thing, because I haven't really looked at the mod at all, but you certainly can't base anything on the bug thread.

And by the way, we do have a "known issues" thread—someone who wanted to know whether we knew about their bug would be able to look there rather than the bug thread.

-Simetrical


Registered User
Posts: 236
(3/7/05 10:23 pm)
Reply Re: Best RTW mod (no BETAs or under progress mods)
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This poll is kinda silly. Most of the respondents have probably played only one or the other of the mods, so it's not a fair vote.

"RTR is continuatly in beta, so so I've heard from people close to the team." -General Sun

Are you referring to me? I said that RTR has made a *practice* of unmarked public betas, not that *all* RTR versions are unmarked public betas (and for those who are wondering, we aren't going to be releasing any more untested versions without clearly marking them as such). 5.2 was highly unstable; 5.3 is almost as stable as vanilla (there's one persistent crash bug that's completely baffled us, but it's rare, and no amount of playtesting will fix bugs that the team can't pin down).

-Simetrical, de facto RTR team member

[Darius]

Ok I'm sorry LT but could you please not turn this into a mudslinging event? I just wanted to share my experiences with the latest RTR mod and hopefully hear feedback from others and maybe even how their campaigns are going. I think that your mod is great, I've played it before and it was enjoyable. However RTR seems to fit my play style far better as it provides me with a much more interesting challenge in Single Player and with a whole bunch of new units to choose from while getting rid of the ridiculous fantasy units at the same time.

Now I understand that its likely that while at some point your pride in each other's work has led to some competition over "who's work is better" but in reality there is no way anyone can possibly gauge that. Each mod provides an extremely different experience and an entirely different game.

So please, let sleeping dogs lie.

[lt1956]

Your right His posts will just make him look bad, I just was a little sad over them.

Glad your having fun, RTR is a good mod, And I agree one is not better than the other and I have stated that always. I am just sad that someone on the RTR team feels that way.

Lt1956

[Simetrical]

Simetrical, I seen your attack over at the .com before Duck of War deleted it. to say the least I wasnt impressed.

What? Attack? How on Earth could that be considered an attack? Somebody suggested that SPQR was less buggy than RTR because its bug thread was smaller; others pointed out that you kept yours clean of unrelated posts, while we didn't; I noted that additionally, as far as I knew, your mod was downloaded by fewer people than RTR, and therefore more people would have posted on our bug thread anyway. I then added that if your mod might or might not have fewer bugs, and that if it did, I didn't know why. Finally, someone had mentioned that they could easily read through the SPQR bug list to find if their bug was already posted, so I said that we had a known issues thread that could serve that purpose.

I'm completely baffled as to how any of that could be taken as offensive, or as an attack on your mod. I certainly didn't mean it as either. I have never, to my knowledge, said that SPQR was in any way inferior to RTR; I don't think I've ever been moved to comment on the issue, but if I was, I would have said that they serve different audiences and have different goals, as should be obvious to anyone. The only real "competitor" RTR has, in any real sense, is EB.

Here above you say its basically an Open Beta yet other places you say its not a beta.

I say nothing of the sort. Read a bit more carefully. I said that, quote "5.2 was basically an open beta." Other than this post and your post, that's the only mention anybody made of open betas on this page. 5.2 is not the current version—5.3 is (or 5.3.4, unofficially). This is precisely what I said in my post at the .com: "RTR has made a *practice* of unmarked public betas, not . . . *all* RTR versions are unmarked public betas." Again, I'm completely baffled that you or anyone else could see a contradiction between that post and my post above.

-Simetrical