Stop Bashing please!

[Beefy]

Hello there,

as you can tell, im relatively new to these forums! but a general feeling of dislike/flamming of RTW have appeared in these forums and many others.

Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played. Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.

Sure places like these forums are great for suggesting new ideas and improvements and for discussing RTW. but i have read many topics just plain bashing the hell out of the game with out weighing up the good points with the bad.

RTW was the game that tuned me from a strategy game hater into a lover!

I know many people that love this game as im sure 99% of the great people on this forum do also.

So please join me, when you see/read someone bashing the game, politely correct their thoughts (if you don't feel like politely use other methods) and make them realise the staggering amount of hard work and effort the CA put into making this game.

Beefy!

[Batangueno]

Greetings Beefy,

People have different expectations of the game. Some people expect the game to put up a good challenge for the human mind. Others want it to be bug-free to get their money's worth. Others are fine with some bugs. Other people play the game the way it was made (buggy or not).

IMHO, it would be difficult to change other people's expectations as it would be difficult for other people to change your level of expectation.

Annoying as it may be, there is nothing that can be done other than to keep quiet and try not to feel miserable.

Just try to play the game the way you want to play the game.

Cheers.

Bat

[Benny Moore]

Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.

I was going to lay into you for this, but on reconsidering, perhaps you mean well. However, I think you should reconsider your position on this! If at least two of the major bugs have really not affected you, then I cannot consider you more than a casual gamer with a passing interest in Rome: Total War, attracted by the graphics.

For instance, I have never noticed the loadgame bug which everyone is complaining about. As far as I've been concerned, it doesn't affect me. However, if what people have been saying is true, it is affecting me greatly and I do not know it. In short, people are saying that the loadgame bug is responsible for many of the problems that I do notice (bad campain artificial intelligence, for one), even if I don't make the connection.

[Byzantine Prince]

This is the best game I have ever played. Please don't flame it or I'll smack you on floor.

[Mikeus Caesar]

I have to agree with beefy. Don't bash the game. But before people start screaming at me 'BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LOADGAME BUG!! YOU STUPID NOOB!!1!' i want to say that i have never experienced the loadgame bug because i still play on vanilla RTW. And as for the incompetent AI? I can live with that. After all, how many other games come this close to being a worthy Strategy game set in this time period, hm? None. If you were to look at all the other games in this market, you would probably realise that RTW is at the top of it's market!!

Sure, there are a few bugs, but this game is still good.

[player1]

I love this game.

Still, I critique CA staff for load/save bug, which does affect my play stay.
Many other bugs I could fix by little moding, but not this beast. It needs hotfix ASAP.

[tai4ji2x]

again this is the typical reaction. people annoyed by so-called "bashers" never seem to look into the argument beyond the surface level. most of the "bashers" actually love the game - they see the potential, the depth, and the hard work that obviously DID go into it. what frustrates these "bashers" is things like the alleged "two patch policy", and now the attitudes of many of the staff and forum moderators towards customer concerns, amongst other things.

[hrvojej]

This is as silly as a hypothetical situation where I would forbid you to ever read those threads again. Read what you like, skip the rest. As long as it's within forum rules and within resonable expectations of a civil discourse, and all the while nobody is twisting your arm to read anything, everybody is free to read and post what they feel like at the time.

[Ranges]

I simply love the game, as i loved it's predecessor (sorry, never got around to playing shogun)

[drone]

Bash the game all you want, just make sure you back it up with valid reasons. I don't want to see forums full of "This game sucks!" posts, it's a waste of everyone's time and accomplishes nothing. Constructive criticism, with facts and explanations, gives the other readers a chance to counter or suggest improvements, and will probably get more attention from the lurking developers . This is a "forum", not a graffiti wall.

It's been stated before. R:TW was an ambitious project, with the potential of being a superb game. It just needed more time to tweak and test. This fact bodes well for the expansion pack, where CA are probably throwing most of their time. If they are just adding skins and models, other game issues can be corrected. Hopefully CA will do a public beta for the XP, to better work out the kinks (this should have been done for R:TW in the first place, Activision's QA job leaves something to be desired).

[Shambles]

I take it you never played The other Total War games Beefy,

Give them a go Then come back and tell me Rome TW is worth The money i payed for it,
Cos Honestly.
Its not worth £1 or $0.50

It has trrrible balanceing of troops,
You can stack all Your people on top of each other Defying laws of physics,
Wether Is non existant With no penalty for archers In rain.

The graphics are the only mitigating part of the game, Which in turn makes it un playable on older sytems, So even though Its techically a good thing, It also SUX.

The game Has Useless AI and Theres Bearly any reason to play It online,

Honestly

the game SUX compared to the rest of the TW serise,

and your better off Buying STW for like $5 Than Paying for that Gloryfied paper weight that you call Rome TW

Please feel free To corect me politley, if you can
But honestly,
Theres nothing to defend

[Craterus]

Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played. Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.

RTW was the game that tuned me from a strategy game hater into a lover!

I completely agree, some of the negative "bashing" on this site even began to put me off playing RTW...

[Count Belisarius]

It's been stated before. R:TW was an ambitious project, with the potential of being a superb game. It just needed more time to tweak and test. This fact bodes well for the expansion pack, where CA are probably throwing most of their time.

Exactly! R:TW IS a hugely ambitious project. I have said it before, and I will say it again: the game was presented prematurely, and is being supported indifferently. But S:TW/MI and M:TW/VI were superlative games in their time, and I have faith in CA that they will correct R:TW's shortcomings sooner or later. I, for one, am patient enough to wait it out. I will buy the expansion immediately upon release and try to offer constructive suggestions to any CA programmer or TW modder who reads my few posts.

To all you "I'm-gonna-smash-my-CDs" bashers out there: why don't you let your pocketbooks do your talking for you instead of clogging up these boards with your mindless blathering? Just don't buy any more TW products and go away. Like my mother always said: if you can't say something nice . . . shut the F&%K up!

The game's complexity is an entire order of magnitude beyond just about any other game out there. From a designer/programmer perspective (not that I am either one), you have to combine the Myth: Fallen Lords type tactical combat engine (on a MUCH larger scale) with a strategic turn-based game (I'm drawing a blank here: Civ maybe?). Essentially, you're writing two games, with two AI's, two sets of priorities, folding the tactical AI in with the strategic AI and vice versa, and all of this with multiple "players" (factions) playing all at once.

Couple all that with new, more detailed strategic movement, more advanced cultural interfaces, an increase in the importance of naval power, and a rather sophisiticated diplomatic interface, you have quite the project. It's enormously complex, but that's the beauty of the TW games.

As if the programming challenges weren't enough, CA also has to satisfy all (or at least most) of the history geeks (of which I am one) who complain about things like not being able to make a phalanx advance at the run, or the wrong style of helmets on some fabulously-detailed soldier or other. YOU try getting a computer programmer to talk to a history geek. It's like trying to teach algebra to a fish.

Patience, my friends, patience. CA rushed R:TW into production without sufficient beta testing, and has done a poor job of patching up holes in the game. But remember: they created the TW system, and for that we should be grateful. You should not be thinking "What has CA done for me lately?"

[Selway]

Where there are people, there will be critics.

Where there are forums, there will be flamers.

[Turbo]

Beefy,

I will be glad to "put on a happy face" when I see CA improve their customer service and follow through with a commitment to support their products and patch major bugs.

The Load/save bug is not a minor bug. Suggest you read the extensive thread on it before putting on horse blinders.

[1dread1lahll]

I just came in to bash and flame Beefy; got to admire a person that can be as loyal as a good dog.

[Benny Moore]

i want to say that i have never experienced the loadgame bug because i still play on vanilla RTW. And as for the incompetent AI? I can live with that.

The loadgame bug affects the unmodified game exactly as it does modified games. You clearly have done no research on this bug at all. Please refrain from making conclusions until you have done so. That goes for the thread creator as well.

Also, the incompetent artificial intelligence is caused, in part, by the loadgame bug. It's not altogether a seperate issue.

[Puzz3D]

I doubt that anything will change in the way CA developes their games. That means no public beta, and lots of pressure on the programmers to meet deadlines. Then a post release patch to address all the oversights which won't be entirely successful. The end result being a spectacular game in which basic stuff doesn't work properly. The consequence of which is it's not worth putting a lot of thinking into playing it because the gameplay will defy logic which won't matter to most of the people who buy the game. I have to give CA good marks on game stability because RTW rarely CTD's. If it wasn't stable, no one would be talking about gameplay issues.

[Shambles]

Actualy RTW is often reported as Crashing to desk top,

And when ppl ask me what to do I simply say.

Throw it away and get shogun or MTW

[Pausanias828]

Well for my part, I have enjoyed the game to a certain degree, but was really expecting more out of it. I still play most days, although I have been playing more with mods than vanilla, plus I have just bought and started playing HoI 2, as well as devoting more time to Dark Throne.

On a side note, Bat, is that you from .com, I hope so, as your message has the same style to it. Regardless of that, welcome to the .org whoever you are. If it is you from the .com though, how are you, I hope you and your family are well. I haven't spent much time there in the last month, as I am spending more time here, and at the twc, as well as a few other Forums.

[starkhorn]

again this is the typical reaction. people annoyed by so-called "bashers" never seem to look into the argument beyond the surface level. most of the "bashers" actually love the game - they see the potential, the depth, and the hard work that obviously DID go into it. what frustrates these "bashers" is things like the alleged "two patch policy", and now the attitudes of many of the staff and forum moderators towards customer concerns, amongst other things.

Yeah this is how I feel as well. People love the game and try to help CA by providing testing results and advice. All they get is silence for weeks from CA only to be told by CA that there is no bug and a moderator saying that it's the players fault as we choose to reload.

That's what makes me mad. I love the game but it should be better and no response and lack of customer feedback from CA is what leads to the majority of anger and frustration imho.

Cheers
Starkhorn

[Batangueno]

Greetings Pausanias,

Yep! its me. The same old Bat. I just thought I'd register here instead of lurk. Aurelius' post at Duck's pond reminded me to register here.

Thank you for asking about my family. I hope your family is well too. .COM is taking a lot of my time these days. But when I have time, I'll drop by here once's in a while.

Cheers.

Bat

[Beefy]

Well what a response!

Im allowed to say my feeling on these forums thats the point of them, just like many of you guys have done. Nothing is going to change my feelings though. I have never expereinced a CTD. my online play is good, and the loadbug? doesnt bother me! why go looking for major errors in a game that you have just payed £40 for? It may affect my game, but i dont let it rule my life!
OMFG a bug! dear lord! complain complain, boo hiss!
No point, just point it out! and hopefullyt CA will do something about it! but how long this game been out? not that long?
but i suppose ive done my 2 cents, think what you may, agree, disagree im not bothered! as long as you appreciate the effort that was put into this game, and the quality is pocceses!

Beefy

[Pode]

I would like to extend a warm welcome to Bat as I have the most respect for him out of all the .com mods. Your dedication to reasoned neutrality is one of the bright spots in that place, and I sincerely hope that you find the .org a good place to relax and talk about the TW games that you love enough to volunteer so much of your life to such a thankless task. I for one promise to never cross quote you between the org and the com, so that you can feel free to express opinions here that might be out of place coming from a mod on the .com

On topic, there is a distinct difference between bashing and criticism. I will never apologize for having high expectations from CA after the stellar work they did with STW and MTW. To encounter in RTW a game that can't even save properly is a crushing disappointment, compounded by steadfast refusal to deal with the issue. I feel as a consumer that I have a legitimate right to be upset, and I will continue to be. Sorry if that offends.

[player1]

.....

[BeeSting]

It is a customer’s prerogative to criticize the product he/she bought. I deal daily with customers not satisfy with this or that about the service, price, or the product itself. Regardless of how unreasonable they may be, I give them the satisfaction of the fact that I will attempt to fix the problem and keep them happy. Leaving clients in the dark is the worst possible customer service, ever. My motto, knowing what the each clients want, that is, wanting to feel that each are not just one of our thousands or millions of clients, let them know that their concerns are my concerns and make them feel as though each are my only clients. But the success of the industry I’m in is highly geared toward costumer service unlike other kinds of industries, which largely depends their success on product quality and reliability. So asking for such attention might be too much. Nevertheless the principle of customer service applies across the line for all industries. All have to follow through their words and answer the cries of their costumers the best they could. Nothing is perfect and I realize that, so no one is crying for a spotless bug free product off the shelves, save for the fact that if they encounter a problem during use, help should be provided, if it can be answered off the bat then at least fixes should be promised. They should not be left in the dark as CA did to us for whatever reasons. for they are entitled to at least some direction or a promise that the repeated complaints are being addressed and worked on. But what have we heard after the second patch? Nothing but nothing but silence after silence. Oh, I forgot, we did hear something in the line of, “Look, there isn’t a single game like ours out there so you should stop whining.” Why am I so upset by this sort of response? As if I do not possess the cognitive skill and insight to already know this. Oh, excuse me, my apologies for offending the demigods of CA! I just happened to be a sensitive strategy game player whose sole interest is to maximize and prolong the enjoyment of your product. And this is still considered a strategy game isn’t it? Or am I the only one who is unchallenged by its level of, dare I say, artificial intelligence and countless bugs that plague this game? I should just shut up and keep to myself and blindly wait another 2 years for something better to descend from the high dwelling place of CA staffs, as if it were an answer to my fervent prayers, out of humility and gratefulness. Something is backwards here.

We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy costumers!

[BobTheTerrible]

Hello there,

as you can tell, im relatively new to these forums! but a general feeling of dislike/flamming of RTW have appeared in these forums and many others.

Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played.

Seriously, be careful saying that around these parts. I started up a similar topic a while ago, and I was pretty much banished from the forums. People automatically assume you're a new player, and thus stupid or unworthy for liking the game.

I hold very similar views. I think RTW is an awesome game. I am ticked about their patching policy and the amount of bugs, but that doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the game. Most people wanted RTW to be a MTW 2 of sorts (myself, admittedly, included) but it's not. Most people here didn't adapt (I'm not flaming)

The reason, quite frankly, that you see everyone here bashing RTW is that all the people who like it, have left these forums.

should just shut up and keep to myself

Quite honestly, I think you should. Not many around here still like the game, and I think you'll find yourself in a losing battle. It's all an opinion, and I found out the hard way there's no arguing opinion.

[BeeSting]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Pausanias828]

Greetings Pausanias,

Yep! its me. The same old Bat. I just thought I'd register here instead of lurk. Aurelius' post at Duck's pond reminded me to register here.

Thank you for asking about my family. I hope your family is well too. .COM is taking a lot of my time these days. But when I have time, I'll drop by here once's in a while.

Cheers.

Bat

Yeah I can understand that it keeps you busy, I have popped back a few times recently, but not for very long. Keep up the good work there.

As for my family, well after all the problems of last year, this year (so far at least) seems to be much better.

I saw Aurelius' post as well, a couple of days ago, has he actually hit the big 10 post yet?

Anyway, hope to see you around a bit more.

[Turbo]

[QUOTE=BobTheTerrible]Seriously, be careful saying that around these parts. I started up a similar topic a while ago, and I was pretty much banished from the forums. People automatically assume you're a new player, and thus stupid or unworthy for liking the game.


Exactly how were you "banished" Bob? What BS.

Unlike the .COM that is run facist style, the .ORG encourages open speech and differences in opinion. If you want to complain about censorship, talk to the moderators/admins over at the .COM.