cities with permanent unrest penalty?

Are there some cities with permanent 15% unrest penalty? I have many cities in Iberia as well as Palma which have 15% unrest. I was assuming it was due to enemy spies so I loaded up those cities with my own spies and extra garrisons, but after many years of that there has been no change, and no enemy spies have been uncovered. This makes me think there is something else going on. Despite the fact that most of these cities are now completely Romanized and have zero culture penalty, the 15% unrest is still there.

Does anyone know anything about this situation?

There's a fair bit of info in Unrest Public Order Penalties thread of the Ludus Magna.

In RTW+MTW some of the cities are naturally rebellious, this is probably where the 15% is coming from.

There are some that are permanent 30% unrest too, like Jerusalim.

So is there any way to combat that? Would my own spies in the city decrease the unrest?

No, not unless you want to mod the game.

Originally Posted by Romeus Petrus

So is there any way to combat that? Would my own spies in the city decrease the unrest?

Spies do not reduce unrest in your cities, although they do make the life of enemy spies harder.

The only way to remove the permanent unrest is to mod the game. The details, and a list of all cities affected by permanent unrest, are in the link above.

I take it Eastern cities have a lot worse unrest than other places. Man Anitoch just wont give in.

According to a list I saw, the towns with a 15% unrest penalty are:

Bordesholm, Domus Dulcis Domus, Vicus Gothi, Batavodorum, Damme, Vicus Marcomanni, Tanais, Mogontiacum, Segestica, Tylis, Asturica, Salona, Numantia, Osca, Scallabis, Carthago Nova, Corduba, Palma, Croton, Dumatha, Bostra, Dimmidi, Petra and Nepte.

Those with a 30% penalty are:

Themiskyra, Deva, Londinium, Tarsus and Jerusalem.

This doesn't apply to the faction originally owning it. IMHO this is wrong in the case of Jerusalem, which was ALWAYS rebelling against foreign oppressors.

I suspect it's intended to make life harder for the Roman factions, as most of these places will already have considerable cultural/distance to capital penalties.

That list looks familiar!

Originally Posted by vastator

This doesn't apply to the faction originally owning it. IMHO this is wrong in the case of Jerusalem, which was ALWAYS rebelling against foreign oppressors.

I'm not sure this is accurate. If you look in descr_rebel_factions.txt you'll find this for the Judaeans, the rebel faction assigned to Jerusalem:

Code: [View]

rebel_type 			Judaeans	//parthia
category			peasant_revolt 
chance				6					
description			Judaeans
unit				east archer
unit				rebel judaean zealots
unit				rebel judaean zealots
unit				eastern rebel general

So if you play as Parthia, you shouldn't get any permanent resistance.

This doesn't apply to the faction originally owning it. IMHO this is wrong in the case of Jerusalem, which was ALWAYS rebelling against foreign oppressors.

Not to be antisemitic in any way, but the Jews have had a tendency throughout history to, what shall i say, 'separate' themselves from others. Selective breeding and the old unwillingness to share knowledge in general make the present conflict unsurprising, and perhaps, unsolvable.
Recent Jewish voices for sharing are being heard, however, so there is basis for hope. Let us first see Goodwill.

Let's not make any references to modern politics here, please. Suffice it to say that the Jews in Roman times were immensely rebellious, and Jerusalem well deserves the 30% base unrest penalty.

-Simetrical

Parthia is monotheistic....is that why the Judeans wouldn't rebel against them?

Pretty cool.