Teachers say no-one should 'fail'

**ShadesWolf** · 07-22-2005, 18:38

I have actually found something I agree with the government on.....

Education Secretary Ruth Kelly has dismissed suggestions that the concept of "failure" should be removed from school in favour of "deferred success".
She said she gave the idea - which will be discussed at a teachers' conference - "nought out of 10".

The Professional Association of Teachers will be told at its meeting next week that the label of failure could undermine pupils' enthusiasm.

Delegates will also hear a condemnation of the phrase "happy slapping".

The term is used to describe bullying where assaults are filmed on mobile phones.

Liz Beattie, a retired teacher, will call on the association's annual gathering in Buxton, Derbyshire, to "delete the word 'fail' from the educational vocabulary to be replaced with the concept of 'deferred success'".

Demolish

She argues that repeated failure, such as in exams, can damage pupils' interest in learning.

She told the Today programme on BBC Radio Four she had deliberately made the motion provocative to spark a good debate, but said it reflected the way the education system was developing.

"We have made so much development in recent years in making examinations more flexible, doing them in modules so you can concentrate on different parts of them at different times," she said.

"What happens when an exam is failed but, for example, three-quarters of it is perfectly satisfactorily done? It should be possible to do the other bits as add-ons afterwards and to defer the success of the exam."

Wesley Paxton, a member of the association's council, is supporting the motion.

"Elsewhere we applaud those who persevere, like marathon contestants who take days to complete. It's time we made the word 'fail' redundant and replaced it with 'please do a bit more'," he said.

Education Secretary Ruth Kelly told the Today programme on BBC Radio Four: "For that particular proposal, I think I might give them nought out of 10.

"It's really important for young people to grow up with the ability to get on and achieve, but also to find out what failure is.

"When young people grow up and enter the adult world they have to deal with success and failure, and education is about creating well-rounded young people who can deal with these sorts of situations."

The association, one of the smaller organisations for teachers, will also hear a call to block the use of the term "happy slapping" - when the attacks recorded on phones should be labelled as either an assault or bullying.

And there will be a call for "the producers of children's programmes to consider and address the presentation, language and diction of those programmes".

**Blodrast** · 07-22-2005, 20:25

see the "Are we raising a nation of wimps ?" thread for related material.
As far as removing "fail" goes, I say it's just plain stupid. It diminishes the kids' interest in learning ?? Surely they didn't fail because they had a lot of interest in learning to begin with ...
And besides, why on earth does everybody assume kids have to _enjoy_ school ?
I never did, and did a pretty good job. And since when are kids so damn sensitive ??
I'm sure the 14-year-olds' that smoke and do pot and bully others would be highly affected by being told that they failed an exam, and it would certainly stunt their self-esteem and capacity for becoming an esteemed pillar of the community...

**PanzerJaeger** · 07-22-2005, 20:51

Western society is systematically eliminating the concept personal responsibility. Nothing is ever anyone's fault and feelings come before results and productivity.

**Moros** · 07-22-2005, 20:55

I was hurt so badly when I failed,
it made me to learn it again!!!!
no really, most fail because they did'nt do their best so it's their own bloody fault!
what kind of person will you get if they never have to bare the consequences. I'll tell you he'll do whatever he wants, then once grown up he can't handle it and will be a major pain in the ass and you'll not be able to change that anymore. it wouldn't even be it's own fault he's like that, a kid learns and gets prepared by this.
note: I'm going to school myself.

Edit: I must say I really agree with PJ
btw: love your sig Blodrast.

**Azi Tohak** · 07-22-2005, 21:42

Thanks PazerJager. You're right. But where does the idea of ‘it is societies fault’ come from?

But more to the point, sure, I was a smart kid in school. It took until college for me to fail at anything academic. But what is wrong with some people just being dumb? Some people are born stupid. Some people are born smart. The stupid work at Dillons/Wal-Mart/McDonalds for their whole lives, and are happy. The smart go to college and then become ‘skilled’. Both types of people are needed. Telling someone they failed is a statement of fact.

I failed in my project for my job. Am I happy about it? No. My boss understands and he does not mind. But I’m not going to sue him because he destroyed my self-esteem.

Maybe I am hardened by high-school and the crap I went through. Maybe I’m not in touch with my feelings. But when exactly did that become the most important thing for a man to aspire to? What about knowledge, wealth, happiness? Why must I care what other people feel? I may care what some other people think, but I don’t give a rats-a** what most anyone feels. The only feelings I care about are those of my friends and loved ones.

Azi

**Blodrast** · 07-22-2005, 22:11

Well, I think Panzer has a point saying it is "society's fault", even though it may not be 100% accurate - but I can't think of a better way to express it either.
If not 'society's fault', then whose fault is it exactly ? (I'm not arguing, it's an honest question)
And what I think would be interesting to try and figure out is, why is this happening ? What is the real reason why the various people in authority and related to this are going down this path ? Mind you, I'm not talking some conspiracy theory here - not in the least; I'd like to know some real explanation or justification of the reasons why this is happening. Why now ? What has changed, or what has been discovered, that makes _this_ the better way ? Why (if at all) did they (who's they, anyway ?) come to the conclusion that the "older" ways (i.e., 10 and 20 years ago, and before that), are no longer good enough, or are wrong altogether ?

I'd sure like to know the answers to some of these, because I'd sure like to know how my kid is treated in school, and what kind of mentality is going to be promoted in the place where he/she is supposed to get an education...

edited for clarity...

**drone** · 07-22-2005, 22:39

The university I went to had a 65% graduation rate (65% of students eventually graduated). I can only imagine how emotional scarred some of these "deferred success" children would be after going through that meat grinder. It was tough enough as is, students that coasted with A's in high school had to actually work for the grades, and there were a few suicides. I "survived", and am a better person for it.

How are universities and employers supposed to determine who has the right qualifications if the grading system is watered down? I have to interview new grads for jobs at my company, and it seems like even the universities are dumbing down. This seems like a good way to end meritocracy and head straight into communism. If you get the same reward no matter how well you do, you eliminate competition and the desire to do well, and that's communism.