The Racism Discussion thread

[Al Khalifah]

The KKK is not isolated to the southern states. We have various neo-nazi and white supremacist groups in just about all 50 states. Some racists apparently don't like the heat.

And please, if this is going to be a serious discussion, let's not confine this to the US. There are plenty of racists in Europe as well, at least amongst the football fan(atic)s and the various nationalistic parties.

Only white people are racists and racism only exists in the Western world...?

[drone]

Only white people are racists and racism only exists in the Western world...?

I was going to put in something along the lines of "Racism is not isolated to any one country or race", which is sadly the case. Instead, I got a little irked about TheSilverKnight's post, in a "let he who is without sin..." kind of way.

[PanzerJaeger]

Racism is more prevelent in the northern US and even some places in the West than in the South. Perceptions dont equal reality.

[Roark]

Perceptions dont equal reality.

Except yours, right PJ?

[Papewaio]

Prejudice exists in all societies.

Most people react differently to people who are different.

Be they a different sex, sexuality, skin tone, eye colour, height, weight, speech pattern, accent, education, political outlook etc.

The irony is that most people appreciate differences most of the time if there is positive role models and access to people who are different.

After all most people find the opposite sex interesting not disgusting.

----

A simplistic model for prejudice is:

Unknown creates discomfort to the point of fear.
Fear then creates anger.
Anger boils over to the point someone acts on it.

With exposure to more and more differences most people figure out that different people are interesting. Most people find that they like to eat at an international food court and have a mix of food. Most guys perve on the babe thread and admire the girls of all nations and the girls who are a mix of many nations to.

----

One way to combat prejudice:

Library launches 'borrow a person'

[IliaDN]

Here is my question: are muslim terrorists - racists, or not?
IMO USA is not on the worst position, concerning this problem, if compared with easterners.

[Papewaio]

Terrorists tend to be monoculturalists so in general I would say they are racists.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Why is racism so profound in the Southern USA as it has been for centuries?

Its not so profound as most europeans would seem to believe nor has it been the same for centuries noer is it anywhere near as bad as in the Middle East or most of europe for that matter.

Why is there a KKK and why isn't the government doing anything about it?

THe KKK is basicly a memory here and this illustrates what I was saying about europeans. Listening to you guys you would think their still marching around in white sheets burning crosses on peoples lawns and stringing up black people.Their not , not only because the government has done a great deal about it but so have the american people.

[Pindar]

Racism is a flawed position because race as a category is problematic.

[Soulforged]

Racism is a flawed position because race as a category is problematic.

Agreed. And that's exactly the problem, ignorance. As any idea it's expressed with a porpose, having tremendous effect on reality, this one. I think that many times races surged to be an expiatory of the rest of society, and that's all. Anyway dening that are differences beetween our people, fisical specially, is a lie, what everybody must understand that as humans we are all the same. For that i think that racism is only bad when it has effects on reality, making a separation (even joking about reciprocal defects) is not bad stereotyping isn't bad (just ignorant) while it don't turns in hostile thoughts.
I believe that racism on the Middle East comes from the interpretetion on religion. Some groups believe (as every religion is based on blind believes) and someothers not. The problem is that in Afganistan this is coming to unbearable proportions because the state is saying what the people can do or not do concerning even religion, and many people are mainteined in ignorance by this, i think that hostile thoughts against anything unknown or banned by this oppresive state, eventually apears.
Anyway i would like to say that racism is not an isolated event, happens in all the world. To me is a natural psicologycal thing that rises from ignorance when in any given place there's any type of propaganda on that favor, and nationalism, i personally don't like nationalism.

[bmolsson]

Racism is a flawed position because race as a category is problematic.

I would have to disagree. There is nothing strange with race at all. There are several different races around and human as a spieces can easily be divided in to races.
The problem is when race is used for discrimination or favorisation.

I can't see anything wrong with calling a black man black or a white man white. I can't see any reason why anyone should be ashame or extra proud over his color and demand special treatment.

I am personally against ALL form of discrimination. If it is because of race, sexual orientation or even nationality, it makes me upset. But I am also a realist and believe it's just silly to talk about "African-Americans" or similar expressions. Somebody born in US is an American regardless color. Quite simple actually.

Furthermore, racism in US is not larger or more serious than anywhere else in the world. It is just that it gets a lot more media attention and since US call it self the pioneer on freedom and equality, we expect more from US.
In Asia, racism is even more ugly, for example in Indonesia, EVERYONE knows who is from where and for example Javanese have a much higher standing than most other ethnic groups or races. (There are not so many races in Indonesia so it's a little bit more complicated).
For me as a white guy here, I have to live with being called "bule" (meaning white face) and sometimes get to pay "pajak kulit" (meaning skin tax) for being that, I still survive, but sure I would prefer to be treated as an equal at all times.

So bottom line, I am white and I am not doing any big fuzz over it.

[Papewaio]

So you don't like the extra attention from the girls for being white?

[bmolsson]

So you don't like the extra attention from the girls for being white?

That is not why I get the extra attention. It's a Amex Gold and the Rolex that gives that extra attention......

[Bartix]

There are several different races around and human as a spieces can easily be divided in to races.

??? ???
I never hear any serious scientist claim such for many many years.
What races? How divide?

Here is anti-racist smiley:

[Steppe Merc]

I would have to disagree. There is nothing strange with race at all. There are several different races around and human as a spieces can easily be divided in to races.
The problem is when race is used for discrimination or favorisation.

I can't see anything wrong with calling a black man black or a white man white. I can't see any reason why anyone should be ashame or extra proud over his color and demand special treatment.

But what about say a place like Iran (sorry, I know a pretty good amount of ancient Iranian history, so I'm trying to work with what I know). I mean there were the Iranian speakers such as the Persians and Sakae and Parthians. They were "white" (varrying degrees of darkness, from blonde to dark haired). After that, first Huns then Turkic and and other non Iranian nomads began to encroach into Iran. Then the Arabs invaded, and evauntaully took over. So what is a current Iranian? Other than a genetic test, how do you know what race he is just by looking at him? Is he "white"? Or an Arab?
Is an ancient Iranian nomad "European", even though he lived in Central Asia? Many were probably quite pale, some mummified Scythians looked like Nords.

And what about the many blacks in America who have white blood in them, due to the large amount of children that slave owners had with slaves? If the mother is black and the father is white, what is the kid? Is he black?

[The Stranger]

i think you must not see sumone as muslim white or black but more as a human. i try to do that (i admit its hard and i cant always do it) i'm trying not to be prejudiced and sofar i did that. i'm not saying cant use the terms anymore but when your using it you must know for yourself that they are human first muslim second or human first christian second. alot of people already think that way, and then you have that tiny extreme group about wich we all talk. though the group is small the problems they cause can vary from small to huge.

[bmolsson]

But what about say a place like Iran (sorry, I know a pretty good amount of ancient Iranian history, so I'm trying to work with what I know). I mean there were the Iranian speakers such as the Persians and Sakae and Parthians. They were "white" (varrying degrees of darkness, from blonde to dark haired). After that, first Huns then Turkic and and other non Iranian nomads began to encroach into Iran. Then the Arabs invaded, and evauntaully took over. So what is a current Iranian? Other than a genetic test, how do you know what race he is just by looking at him? Is he "white"? Or an Arab?
Is an ancient Iranian nomad "European", even though he lived in Central Asia? Many were probably quite pale, some mummified Scythians looked like Nords.

And what about the many blacks in America who have white blood in them, due to the large amount of children that slave owners had with slaves? If the mother is black and the father is white, what is the kid? Is he black?

That would mean that these persons are of mixed race. Not fullblood so to say. It doesn't really matter in daily lives since there should be no difference between races. On a race angel, there are a few races which have different features, like color, size etc.
Today it's not PC to talk about races, but for, as long as there are no discrimination, I can't see any problems talking about it.

[Geoffrey S]

And what about the many blacks in America who have white blood in them, due to the large amount of children that slave owners had with slaves? If the mother is black and the father is white, what is the kid? Is he black?

One could argue in similar cases that it's down to upbringing, not the way one looks. Sort of "black on the outside, white on the inside". Which rather backs up the idea that race isn't a good basis on which to judge people, simply because in many cases broad prejudices aren't relevant to particular people.

[Red Harvest]

Its not so profound as most europeans would seem to believe nor has it been the same for centuries noer is it anywhere near as bad as in the Middle East or most of europe for that matter.

It was quite severe until about 40 years ago. The Civil Rights Movement of that time used Federal powers and legislation to make open racism gradually less tolerable/possible in the South at the state and local levels. Blacks finally were able to vote in reasonable numbers as a result. But make no mistake, there is still quiet racism present here, moreso than any other part of the country I have lived in or visited. Of course, I could say the same about sexism in the South too. I didn't see it much farther North, but once I moved here I was amazed at how sexist some of the managers were. They weren't trying to be, they were just clueless. I still remember a VP telling a prostitute joke to start off a technical conference...and it was being put on *video.*

To give another example: my wife was on a federal jury for a discrimination suit on the grounds of wrongful termination. She and the rest of the jurors could clearly see blatant open racial discrimination from the testimony of many sources (including the Defense), but had to find against the claimant, because the termination itself was justified (there was an accident.) The jurors were actually upset that they had to let the company off the hook.

Another example of the quiet racism was a coworker who had stopped eating in the cafeteria since it had been desegregated. He never set foot in there again. I've heard him make a few statements that were very racist (and not in jest), but he was always quite careful not to do anything in an actual official work mode. That's fair enough for me, but he wasn't the sort of person I would put in a supervisory role either. Plus we had some trouble with one Supervisor who had some palpable racial issues. Ironically, he was eventually busted back down a level for a valid sexual harrassment claim.

THe KKK is basicly a memory here and this illustrates what I was saying about europeans. Listening to you guys you would think their still marching around in white sheets burning crosses on peoples lawns and stringing up black people.Their not , not only because the government has done a great deal about it but so have the american people.

They are still alive as my experience has shown, although much less visible. They can no longer do much publicly, whereas they could at one time (and count on supporters.) They have been chased underground as a hate group and they don't have much bite at the moment. What has gotten them is the ability of their more recent victims to sue the organizations successfully. Their funding was attacked and they were bankrupted. That has forced them to change their mode of operation. There is definitely less tolerance for them as well, I don't want to downplay that aspect at all--but the funding offensive was a very heavy blow.

The Klan has petered out several times over the years, only to rise again. Let's hope this previous time will go down as the final chapter.

[TheSilverKnight]

I was going to put in something along the lines of "Racism is not isolated to any one country or race", which is sadly the case. Instead, I got a little irked about TheSilverKnight's post, in a "let he who is without sin..." kind of way.

I'm sorry if I've offended you, it's just most I hear about racism is concentrated to the American South with whites against blacks. I'm sorry again if I've offended you, but that was a serious two questions there.

[Samurai Waki]

The US like most European related countries has had it's nasty issues with racism, Neo-Nazis and white supremacist Cult Movements are about as prevalent in the US as it is in the UK. There are always dissenters.

In the Middle East Racism is quite prevalent, being a non-Arab/Non Islamic in many places could get you killed easily.

China currently has a problem with racist tendencies, and this isn't new news by any means, and isn't limited to black, whites, middle easterners, etc. but is similar in many ways to Nazi Germany as quasi racist/Nationalistic. Meaning many Chinese view themselves as being the superiors to everyone including other Asians, like Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Thai, etc. Most Cultural hubs hide this opinion, but it is rather prevalent, and has a bone of contention in Chinese Government that they resort to adopting out Chinese Children to Westerners.

[drone]

I'm sorry if I've offended you, it's just most I hear about racism is concentrated to the American South with whites against blacks. I'm sorry again if I've offended you, but that was a serious two questions there.

I wouldn't say I was offended, I was just trying to point out that the US South does not hold a monopoly on ignorant rascists. The South still has plenty of rascists, but it's a lot more subtle than it was. Overt acts are rare. I would say the most visible racial flashpoints now are in the big cities like Los Angelos and New York.

Groups like the KKK have been weakened by the most powerful attack possible here in the US, the civil lawsuit. Rascist groups have been bankrupted by lawsuits seeking damages for acts perpetrated by members. Without the money, the organization folds. The rascists still exist, but it's harder to recruit, sucker in a new generation, and get the message out. I hate lawyers (does that make me rascist? ), but this is an example of the legal system working for good.

[TheSilverKnight]

I wouldn't say I was offended, I was just trying to point out that the US South does not hold a monopoly on ignorant rascists. The South still has plenty of rascists, but it's a lot more subtle than it was. Overt acts are rare. I would say the most visible racial flashpoints now are in the big cities like Los Angelos and New York.

Groups like the KKK have been weakened by the most powerful attack possible here in the US, the civil lawsuit. Rascist groups have been bankrupted by lawsuits seeking damages for acts perpetrated by members. Without the money, the organization folds. The rascists still exist, but it's harder to recruit, sucker in a new generation, and get the message out. I hate lawyers (does that make me rascist? ), but this is an example of the legal system working for good.

Thanks for enlightening me over this situation
and btw, if you hate lawyers, you're not a racist I don't think anyone properly loves lawyers