What to do with child molesters?

[The_Doctor]

Castrate them

What if it was a woman?


We had one in our road only 3 houses away from mine in a big old house that is used as flats, nobody knew about it until we read it in a local newspaper.

And ironically we also have a man who got an MBE for running a youth club for a long time.

[Redleg]

Child Molesters and Rapists are like Sociopaths. Both are proven incurable, and un-rehabilitatable. You can do some things to lessen the risk, but you can never cure someone like this. Regardless of whatever victimizations they might have gone through at one point, is that not further reason to remove them from society? If they are running around raping and molesting, they are creating more people like themselves.

Child Molesters and Rapists need to be killed, in my opinion.

For committing the crime of molestion and child rape - lock them up for a long period of time - There is a push to make it a mandatory sentence of not less then 25 years. Not sure where I actually fall into on this - the first time offense could be treated if an investigation is conducted toward the why of the crime to determine what made the individual do such an act - but for multiple offenders - I have absolutely no problem having them locked up for the rest of their lives.

For committing child rape and then murdering that child - well I have already stated numerous times that such an act warrants the death penality.

[ShadesPanther]

executed or at the very least locked up in jail until they die with no chance at all of parole

Also in my school just before I went there there was a paedophille teacher so yes lock them up untill they die at the very least

[Kagemusha]

I think they cant be cured.Lobotomy or castration and lifetime in jail.Some people just arent able to be part of the society.

[doc_bean]

Lock them up and throw away the key, allow suicide.

[Kralizec]

Caution: What I'm going to type now is going to upset a lot of you

Todays societies, and ESPECIALLY Dutch society, force young people and especially girls to become...err, mature early on. This is the MTV generation, kids being stimulated everywhere they look. In the Netherlands C&A is selling string underware for girls as young as 12! I could think of more such examples, but that would be kind of redundant.
When discos fail to keep 13 year old girls out (and I mean come on, bouncers are doing this several evenings per week- how difficult is it to tell if a girl is 13 or 21?)
Older guys visit those discos, guys who also grew up with MTV etc...on top of this, it's not just a case of an older guy wanting a young girl- the young girl wants him too.
Stuff like that happens outside of discos too. Kids have sex younger and younger when the years pass, and don't mind doing it with somebody way older.
So it's easy to put them in jail, and even easier to give them the electric chair. Ignore the root of the problem and just kill the guy, the mob approves anyway.

I know this isn't what you meant in your post Don, but those guys fall under "pedophile" too and I wanted to add some nuance here. As for the kind of guy you're talking about, ie the old pervert who abducts little girls in cars, I can be brief. Unless we can be very, very certain that in a particular case there's practicly no risk of recidivism, life long imprisonment. Otherwise a long sentence and compulsory psychiatric treatment before released in the open (TBS in the Netherlands allows this lifelong, dunno about the rest of the world)
So no public floggings, live executions on TV, etc

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Current laws being pushed in the United States specify 12 and under. Not that you can't get in trouble for 13-18, just that a mandatory 25 year sentence is not imposed because situational factors may intervene, however infrequently.

As to 13 being "younger and younger," your comment is only true if viewed through the lens of modern western society. Numerous other cultures and many traditional Western cultures allowed marriage at or near that age.

If your're saying that selling dental floss style undies to minors obviates an adult from correct behavior I must vehemently disagree. If you are saying that there are instances where it is not a crime of violence to the same extent as a stereotypical pedophilea attack (if there can ever be sadi to be such a thing), you may have a point for consideration.

Seamus

[yesdachi]

The punishment needs to fit the crime. There is a difference between pedophilia and child molestation. There is a difference between rape and statutory rape. There is a difference between pre-meditated murder and killing in self-defense. And in each instance there are several levels of difference. In each case the punishment needs to be flexible enough to fit the crime. Some crimes are serious and demand punishment but others are horrible and those who commit them should never be allowed the opportunity to commit them again, punish them and save society, put them to death.

Anyone that thinks it’s appropriate to jail a criminal for life to take them out of society is forgetting that they are still part of society. They cost society money and their imprisonment forces others to interact with them. The thought of being in the same society as a child molester or a rapist is terribly offensive and a cause of fear and anger, but can you imagine being in jail for robbery (out on parole in a few years) and being cellmates with one who is in for life! That’s cruel and unusual punishment. A life sentence is a ridiculous punishment because it causes a drain on tax dollars and still allows the convicted to influence society. The only way to remove them from society and guarantee they will never harm anyone again is to put them to death.

[Soulforged]

The same thing done today, jail for a time, and then realease them. Treating them will make them an instrument and will give the state the higher moral ground (and the ability to imposse that moral, wich the state cannot do). On the other hand execution is out of the question, it's desproportional.

To all of you that propose castration (execution I'll not even bother) one thing. The problem is psychologycal, the molester will continue to molest, with accesories perhaps, or with his own tongue, wich is considered as carnal access too. Just for you to notice how useless castration is.

[Reverend Joe]

My only solid opinion lies with pedophilia.

If a person is found guilty of child molestation, he will receive whatever sentence child molesters get, along with a thorough psychological evaluation. If they are found to be prone to child molestation, they will be carefully watched. If they perform a second act of molestation, they will be given massive surgery. This goes far beyond simple castration, which is technically just the removal of the genitals. In men, the penis and testicles will be removed, along with all other possible sources of sexual stimulation, especially the prostate and nipples and areolae, but possibly the nerves on the palm and fingers, and the foot and toes, to remove all sensation form those areas. For women, the procedure is basically the same, with all sections of the vagina being removed, especially the clitoris, and the nipples and areolae, and if necessary, the nerves in the palm, fingers, feet and toes.

If any of the women on this site argue that the penalties for women are harsher because they lose the entire vagina, whereas men just lose the penis and testicles- trust me, it's just as bad.

These people would no longer gain any pleasure from molesting children, and thus could be released to lead as normal lives as they could, even though these lives may be somewhat hollow. Then again, it's better than the death penalty- less expensive.

[Adrian II]

Just for you to notice how useless castration is.

Chemical castration works in The Netherlands. See my earlier post.

[Samurai Waki]

Turn pedophiles into steers for all I care. It's horrible and disgraceful.

[bmolsson]

It's a very difficult problem. Society needs to be protected so they have to be removed from society. Death penalty is not an option since we are better than that. Medication and therapy when away from society is the only option.
But, a very difficult problem which can not be taken seriously enough.....

[English assassin]

Hmm, we need JAG. Never mind, I'll have a go.

Although I can sympathise, and probably agree, with those who say they need to be removed from society for as long as they are dangerous, this too poses dangers.

First, lets get rid of all the flogging and hurting stuff. Does that unmolest a single child? No. Will it deter a future offence? I doubt it, and even if it does, it com,es at the proce of brutalising the whole of an already pretty brutal society. So, lock them up for the puinishment part of the sentence in normal conditions, and if they need to be detained thereafter on a preventative basis, that should be in normal, comfortable conditions. Take away their liberty to the extent necessary to protect children, but otherwise why should they not live a normal life? After all at this point we are detaining them only for a crime they might commit in the future, not for one they have done in the past.

And that, I would just like to point out, is a dangerous precedent. We all agree that paedophilia (SA's type A paedophilia) is a particularly horrible crime, and it seems to be the case that most offenders really cannot help themselves reoffending. Preventitive detention certainly seems appealing. But locking people up for what they might do is a very different concept from locking them up for what they have done. Suppose, as we move a little way down the slippery slope, we identify people who have themselves been victims, who have accessed child pornography, who show an unhealthy interest in playgrounds and scout groups. Our psychologists tell us this person is almost certainly an offender in waiting, maybe they even admit to being attracted to children and delude themselves that such relationships can be consensual and acceptable. But they have never in fact so much as touched a child. By parity of reasoning presumably we lock them away for ever?

A short way down the slope are other sexual offenders, who also seem to have a very high reoffending rate. After that I am sure we can identify sociopaths, psychopaths, people with poor impulse control, incorrigible drug addicts, etc etc etc. We could probably clean up society a lot by locking up people who are "very likely" to do things we don't like.

Sounds dangerous to me?

Edit: a further thought

We live in a society where horrible things happen to children. A child being smashed to a pulp by two tons of speeding steel is not nice, yet we are apparently prepared to tolerate the fact that it happens so we can all have the liberty of driving where we like. Children being smashed to bits could easily be stopped by banning motor transport, or, less draconianly, fitting mandatory 20 mph speed governors activated in all urban areas. Can someone explain to me why the liberty of driving as we wish outweighs the need to stop children being smashed to pieces, but the liberty of only being punished for the crimes you commit, not the crimes you might in the future commit, is somehow less important?

Clue: in my cynical opinion the answer would be different if general motors made a profit from paedophilia.

[ah_dut]

Caution: What I'm going to type now is going to upset a lot of you

Todays societies, and ESPECIALLY Dutch society, force young people and especially girls to become...err, mature early on. This is the MTV generation, kids being stimulated everywhere they look. In the Netherlands C&A is selling string underware for girls as young as 12! I could think of more such examples, but that would be kind of redundant.
When discos fail to keep 13 year old girls out (and I mean come on, bouncers are doing this several evenings per week- how difficult is it to tell if a girl is 13 or 21?)
Older guys visit those discos, guys who also grew up with MTV etc...on top of this, it's not just a case of an older guy wanting a young girl- the young girl wants him too.
Stuff like that happens outside of discos too. Kids have sex younger and younger when the years pass, and don't mind doing it with somebody way older.
So it's easy to put them in jail, and even easier to give them the electric chair. Ignore the root of the problem and just kill the guy, the mob approves anyway.

I know this isn't what you meant in your post Don, but those guys fall under "pedophile" too and I wanted to add some nuance here. As for the kind of guy you're talking about, ie the old pervert who abducts little girls in cars, I can be brief. Unless we can be very, very certain that in a particular case there's practicly no risk of recidivism, life long imprisonment. Otherwise a long sentence and compulsory psychiatric treatment before released in the open (TBS in the Netherlands allows this lifelong, dunno about the rest of the world)
So no public floggings, live executions on TV, etc

Excellent post Germaanse Strijder, as English Assasain has already stated, we must decide what precisely constitutes a pedophile. A Pedophile who rapes and kills children (or just the first) is what EA calls a type A...give em to Capo/Kaiser is my honest opinion...

As to statuary rape, I'm sure Malcolm will back me up on this (him of Glasgow) and that's if they're child rapists (which they technically are) then a good few of my friends are going byebye...As to my understanding the boy is the rapist in USI situations. That's 2 consenting 14 year olds in this case, though in one particular situation I'd rather not get into it involved a 12 year old girl and a 14 year old.

Germaanese Strijder again presents an excellent point on the both parties are consenting and clubbing thing...I've never been able to get into a club (even one for 16 and over...I'm a pretty scrawny 14 year old so understandable) but many girls I know have (which I just don't get...) but that's life. What happens if a 14 year old girl wants a 40 year old man and vice versa? My answer, I'm going to run away as ihave no clue. Actual rape (as in one side didn't consent, mainly talking about the underage party here) is probably unforgivable and again, I'd say hand em to Kaiser or just throw away the key

[sharrukin]

There exists the problem of wrongful conviction, particularly when the victim is a child, and more susceptible to outside influence. That aside.

If there exists clear proof (DNA, video, etc) then the death penalty seems the only long term solution that works. Long prison terms have a magical way of becoming shorter as time goes by. And then we have another victim.

When one of these guys is arrested, it is rare indeed, to hear that this is their first run-in with the law. They have usually done this several times before that the legal system was aware of.

Death penalty

[Red Harvest]

I'm not willing to accept the "disease" argument as it is generally presented. I can accept it if we treat it as a disease that requires stringent permanent quarantine. That quarantine would of course be lifetime imprisonment. Castration might work for some, but it is not going to work for many. In a voluntary capacity it might have some application.

I strongly support the death penalty for many offenses against children. It must be my rural roots, but we put dangerous animals down. (Incurably ill ones too...hence my acceptance of assisted suicide.) To me, someone who cannot live in our society without destroying the lives of innocents qualifies as a dangerous animal, rather than a human worthy of my sympathy. They should be put down with extreme prejudice.

[yesdachi]

I'm not willing to accept the "disease" argument as it is generally presented. I can accept it if we treat it as a disease that requires stringent permanent quarantine. That quarantine would of course be lifetime imprisonment. Castration might work for some, but it is not going to work for many. In a voluntary capacity it might have some application.

I strongly support the death penalty for many offenses against children. It must be my rural roots, but we put dangerous animals down. (Incurably ill ones too...hence my acceptance of assisted suicide.) To me, someone who cannot live in our society without destroying the lives of innocents qualifies as a dangerous animal, rather than a human worthy of my sympathy. They should be put down with extreme prejudice.

Since seeing the original question posted a while ago I have been trying to think of a response that would be appropriate without spending a lot of time (I am at work) Thanks Red Harvest for saving me the trouble. I agree.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My faith teaches against the use of the death penalty, and I have slowly come around to agreement with that position.

Heinous offenders of this type are demonstrably damaging to society (creating a new generation of the same being among the worst elements). Redleg's commentary about quarantine is apt. Taking life judicially may be unneccessary in a modern society and thereful too "vengeful" to constitute a truly ethical response. Allowing such offenders to continue among us, especially in light of the known recidivism/failed treatment rates, is equally unethicical. Imprisonoment until the threat is nullified is the only moral choice.

Seamus

[Redleg]

My faith teaches against the use of the death penalty, and I have slowly come around to agreement with that position.

Heinous offenders of this type are demonstrably damaging to society (creating a new generation of the same being among the worst elements). Redleg's commentary about quarantine is apt. Taking life judicially may be unneccessary in a modern society and thereful too "vengeful" to constitute a truly ethical response. Allowing such offenders to continue among us, especially in light of the known recidivism/failed treatment rates, is equally unethicical. Imprisonoment until the threat is nullified is the only moral choice.

Seamus

I do believe you were refering to Red Harvest - even though my thoughts on the matter are very similiar - his were more precise and he did use the term.

[drone]

The death penalty is too kind here. King Henry V's idea is more of what I'd prefer. At least 20 years in the general population of a maximum security prison. In prisons here in the States, pedophiles are about three rungs lower than pond scum in the hierarchy, chances are you'd get the same result as the death penalty, but with a cleaner conscience and lower electric bill.

[Crazed Rabbit]

For all those advocating killing, what do you think of this:

Man claims he killed 2 sex offenders in city ?

I personally say lock them up and throw away the key or just save some jail space and execute for the particularily henious crimes.

Crazed Rabbit

[yesdachi]

For all those advocating killing, what do you think of this:

Man claims he killed 2 sex offenders in city ?

I’m not sure why he turned himself in . If your going to be a vigilante, I say really go for it! He should have been going from town to town with a copy of the “registered sex offenders list” in one hand and his 9mm in the other.

[Louis VI the Fat]

For all those advocating killing, what do you think of this

I say give the guy a medal and put him on a government payroll.

[Don Corleone]

Okay, well, I'm actually surprised by some of the responses I've seen in here, not because of content, but because there's more people on my page (and from a wider perspective) than I would have thought. Still, even a lynch mob has a majority in agreement, so we shouldn't be too quick to castrate/flog/execute the perpetrator.

I'd like to address a comment by Seamus that pedophiles 'create a whole new generation'. Not all pedophiles were in fact molested, and the vast majority of victims DO NOT come of age and begin offending. I'm not criticizing you, it's a common myth put forward by pop-psychology. If you really believe the pedophile is created directly in such a fashion, surely you must view him/her as blameless, as they have no concious role to play, correct?

I understand what people are talking about when it comes to execution not as vengance, but as a public health solution, but again, as this is a human being we're talking about, I do not believe we have the right to take his/her life. It's hard, believe me, very hard, to continue to toe this line, but I really honestly believe the Lord reserves final judgement for Himself.

Anyway, is A. Saturnus the only one we have in the backroom that's 'in the know' when it comes to prevalanent modern theories of psychology and what's being bandied about in their journals? I really would like to understand the thought process of people that advocate for rehabilitation of pedophiles. I think I know what Jag would say, but he approaches it from his notion of social justice, and I'm looking for something derived in the crucible of scientific method, or at least in conjunction with it.

[Kanamori]

Yup, its only allowed to bash Christianity here.

The Church is not the same as Christianity, and I haven't heard any widespread cases of Rabbis moving Rabbis to different synagogues, or Imams moving Imams to different mosques. Criticizing the clergy is distinct from criticizing the religion. At any rate, I remember a particularly nasty thread about Islam.

[Tribesman]

Dave , if you could point me in the direction of an organisation with a very long history of child abuse and coverups of that abuse stretching all the way to the top of that organisation then I will bash that organisation .
Until then why should I not bash an institution that fits all of that criteria ?

[Adrian II]

I really would like to understand the thought process of people that advocate for rehabilitation of pedophiles. I think I know what Jag would say, but he approaches it from his notion of social justice, and I'm looking for something derived in the crucible of scientific method, or at least in conjunction with it.

I have researched this theme a bit because there have been several widely-publicised cases of repeat sex offenders in The Netherlands recently.

The trouble is there is no known cure for serious sexual deviancy. Chemical castration is the alternative, but only in combination with forced psychotherapy and rehabilitation. Therapy is necessary because a main part of the problem of sex offenders is that they incapable of dealing with stressful situations. A long prison sentence followed by forced treatment tends to work in The Netherlands. The repeat offenders I mentioned were typically convicts who eluded their parole officers, stopped taking their medication and were caught within days of their escape. The Dutch parole system for sex offenders clearly needs an overhaul.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

[Strike For The South]

1st mandatory castration 10 years
2nd LIFE