Nuclear Bomb Multiple Inquisition Tactic

[Grond]

I was getting familiar with the use of Inquisitioners as a military option for removal of competent enemy commanders. I’d successfully gotten three inquisitioners to 5 valor, and was working hard on making it difficult to be a French commander. It occurred to me the following facts:
1) An inquisitioner has a chance of success based on the piety of the target.
2) After an unsuccessful inquisition, the target’s piety frequently goes up and they receive a virtue (Piety, secret atheist, born again, etc.)
3) We all know it’s a sham; if you pound a target enough times, he will break with the church and then you burn him. Thus, you get devout combined with atheist. Ultimately, the target has 0 piety, and you win.
4) It sometimes takes an average of 5-6 inquisitions to break someone.

Has anyone attempted a nuclear inquisition (I’m coining the phrase right here): Take seven level 5 inquisitioners or better, grand inquisitioners, and drop them on a single target in one turn. Why not? Based on my experience using a combined arms approach to a single target (assassin, spy, then inquisitor in the same turn), the game processes things in a certain order (assassin first, then the spy, inquisitor last), and you could thus do seven inquisitions at once; the target’s status will change in each inquisition, but ultimately the result is he’ll break after 4-5 and the last guys will get the kill. The inquisitions seem to be in the order you set them up, so if you start with a low level guy or three, they’ll build up the target’s immunity, and then end with a few big guns to get the kill when he cracks. All in one turn, using a nuclear inquisition team.

I’ll give this a try later on, when I’ve got some time.

[lilljonas]

Depends on your motive. Do you want to destroy a faction with inquisitors? If so, this is not the best alternative.

Why?

Well, the chance of burning a king is automatically smaller than doing the same for a prince, even one with slightly more piety. Therefore, you are better of spreading out your inquisitors on several targets, luring them into the atheist burn-trap, and killing them off before they achieve the crown. In a perfect world, you'll have burned all royal material when you finally go to town on the king, sporting a nice "atheist" vice induced by your crappiest inquisitor, who has been using 0% attacks on him while you killed off his family (even at 0%, failed accusations will eventually turn them atheist). Also, killing off the slightly easier, yet juicy targets that the princes are, you'll gain stars quicker. If I go for this version, I'll more or less spread the pointy hatted inquisitors evenly on the targets (3 on each, 4 on each or so on).

The second reason why this is more time-efficient: cancellations. Or rather, the lack of them. You can't give the agents new orders after you press the "end turn" button. Say you order 10 inquisitors to burn a general. The second succeeds. The other 8 spends a year playing canasta. If you had used them in several "kill teams" instead, you become more efficient, since fewer will spend turns burning people who are already bacon.

Basicly, the inquisition warhead would have a big chanse of killing the victim, but it is potentially less efficient than smaller teams with several victims. But hey, if you only want one person dead, and you want it really, really much, then you might as well bring all your guns to the fight. Most people use this approach for burning the pope, I think, since his generals are mostly irrelevant and he has no heirs.

[Emerald Wolf]

Ahh, I rather like this option... find the pedo's... and burn them to a nice crisp golden brown. I never thought about taking out a whole royal family before though. Interesting. I have a thought. You know how we have all been trying to find out if you can gain provinces from royal marriage. zthis could speed up the process a bit.

[lilljonas]

Indeed. Be allied and burn the entire family. However, this is also undoubtedly considered the cheesiest way to play the game, together with the spy rushes of the old days. Simply put: it's so ridiculously easy and impossible to stop, that you'll probably be bored with it after one campaign. But yeah, it's worth to do it once, just for laughs.

[HopAlongBunny]

It works rather well

Burning down a faction is possible but tends to get tedious after you do it once or twice. If catholic I always keep a Papal Hit Squad for burning "Charismatic, Gentle Knight, Captured, Fine Leader" monstrosities.

[lilljonas]

The absolute best targets for inquisitors IMHO are the small, mediterranian Navy factions: Italians and Sicilians. Burning their families will get rid of all the ships, without you having to endure years of lost trading income or possibly rebellions in faraway colonies, just because you want one or two provinces. Oh, and you probably hate these factions much enough to not feel TOO cheap while doing it.

[Patron]

I can see how tempting it was to eat your victims as an inquisitor or psychotic warlord or otherwise. If I were an inquisitor I would sneak a little bit of roasted hamstring between 2 slices of bread and enjoy the snack whilst watching the heretic burn. Cannibals like Vlad the Impaler may seem shocking to us, but they didn't kill them purely to eat, they simply wanted to see what roast human flesh tasted lik and if it was to their liking there was really nothing to stop them from eating a little of their executed victims. I would imagine the smell of burnt flesh before it is carbonised is quite appealing.

[miho]

I didn't know that Vlad the Impaler (Vlad Tepesh in the original) was a cannibal.I knew he did terrible things such as impaling people on stakes (hence the "nickname").

[miho]

I have a question. Can you inquisite a general of a for example muslim unit if he's been bribed or hired as a merc and now is a part a Christian faction?

[Geezer57]

I have a question. Can you inquisite a general of a for example muslim unit if he's been bribed or hired as a merc and now is a part a Christian faction?

Yes, they're some of the best training targets for beginning Inquisitors.

[ah_dut]

Yes, as previously stated spreading them out probably works better, though if you really need to burn that 9* person...be my guest...

Also, you can smell the cheese from a mile off

[Ludens]

Cannibals like Vlad the Impaler may seem shocking to us, but they didn't kill them purely to eat, they simply wanted to see what roast human flesh tasted lik and if it was to their liking there was really nothing to stop them from eating a little of their executed victims.

AFAIK he wasn't a cannibal at all. He wasn't a nice guy either, but he had to defend his home with a small force against one of the most fearsome armies of his day, so it is hardly suprising he used extreme methods to inspire loyalty.

Also, I have heard that many of the bad stories about him were spread by his rivals to discredit him, but I don't know how much of this is true.

[miho]

Something on Vlad Tepesh (the Impaler):

Vlad Tepesh, Born in 1431 Romania. Ruler of Wallachia just south of Transylvania. Vlad Tepesh DRANK blood to promote fear. It was not unusual for a war hero to drink the blood of his enemy.He was a very strict ruler, even for petty crimes he gave severe punishment, showed little mercy. He would hang and/or execute or torture by having a 15 ft sharp end pole stricken or empaled into their body starting from between their legs and up into the chest.They were lucky if they died swiftly, but many lived for days in agony.He also impaled the enemy soldiers which were either captured or previously killed. There's a story that he once impaled over 1000 men along one road. He then put a very valuable chalice at the end of the road to see if anyone would dare to steal it. Of course nobody tried.

So after hearing this it may seem possible that he was a cannibal but I personally don't believe it.

We're a little off topic here so I'll stop writing about him.

[Patron]

Believe it or not Vlad was like every other king and despot at the time. Standards of liberty were very very low compared to nowadays. After the English civil war, people didn't complain that they didn't have the vote because they considerred themselves lucky that their rulers didn't drag them out of their homes in the middle of the night and burn them alive in order to keep the rest of the populace on their toes which was common place across the globe. Vlad gained his reputation from criticism by the Boyars who were no worse than he was.

[miho]

I know he was no worse than the next guy,he's just more famous than others. Those were the times when rulers could do what they wanted. And there's allways the inquisition.

[Mithrandir]

Shall I move this to the monastery, or does someone want to add another thing about inquisitionars?

[Patron]

Yes, this discussion is probaly illegal in canada by now. Bin it as quickly as possible.

[Mithrandir]

.. ?

[miho]

Yes, this discussion is probaly illegal in canada by now. Bin it as quickly as possible.

What did you mean by illegal in Canada?

[drone]

What did you mean by illegal in Canada?

The best I can figure, is that the discussion is not in both English and French.

[Grond]

The best I can figure, is that the discussion is not in both English and French.

We have to do all our discussions in French now, too? Good thing we've got Babelfish.

Nous devons faire tout nos discussions en français maintenant, aussi ? Bonne chose nous avons Babelfish.

[yesdachi]

Something on Vlad Tepesh (the Impaler):

Vlad Tepesh, Born in 1431 Romania. Ruler of Wallachia just south of Transylvania. Vlad Tepesh DRANK blood to promote fear...

Is drinking blood an act of cannibalism?


On topic, any kind of multiple inquisition/spy/assassin tactic is cheese to me and although fun to discus I wont do it in a game.

[miho]

On topic, any kind of multiple inquisition/spy/assassin tactic is cheese to me and although fun to discus I wont do it in a game.

I don't think its cheese because your enemies use it too.

[Knight Templar]

I don't think its cheese because your enemies use it too.

Yes, but AI is not smart enough to send 15 assassins on your 8-command general in one year, or to send 10 Grand Inquisitors on your only heir to eliminate your faction. In fact, I've never seen 2 or more enemy inquistitors trying to burn one general in one turn.
The real challenge would be to train you assassin to valour 7-8 and then try to kill kings around

[Grond]

Yes, but AI is not smart enough to send 15 assassins on your 8-command general in one year, or to send 10 Grand Inquisitors on your only heir to eliminate your faction. In fact, I've never seen 2 or more enemy inquistitors trying to burn one general in one turn.
The real challenge would be to train you assassin to valour 7-8 and then try to kill kings around

I see your point. Multiple uses abuse a tactic, perhaps.

But! Remember that just because the AI doesn't do it, doesn't mean you can't; witness the terrible AI use of trading, for instance. Is it fair for you to have a huge trading network where you have every single sea lane occupied and you're taking in 15k florins a turn? And, perhaps, just because the developers didn't see it when they designed it, does that make it wrong? Perhaps it perverts the purpose of the game to do such things... but by the same token, that would mean that "training" your assasins using your own people (or your spies on your generals) to get them experience is also a sort of perversion of the intentions of the game. But who is to say that you shouldn't train your spies / assasins/inquis.? Obviously, if you have the option to do terrible things to your own troops, the developers meant that to be in there and therefore it's up to you to use what advantages you have to win.

Anyway, I've mostly spent my inquisitors in a single attack mode, with some success as they've gotten 4-5 stars. I've assasinated many enemy generals of some prowess using a grand inquisitioner, and happily. But using the bomb inquisition tactic isn't something I would normally apply to my games... it's much too inconvenient.

Is it wrong to spam an islamic provence with 20 bishops and cardinals to turn it Christian? The AI only uses one to two holy men at a time to influence such things.

[yesdachi]

I don't think its cheese because your enemies use it too.

Come on miho, there is no arguing it is cheese. It is fun to discuss but it is cheese.

And I have never had an enemy (the AI) do this…

Take seven level 5 inquisitioners or better, grand inquisitioners, and drop them on a single target in one turn.

Say it to the camera…. Cheese!

[miho]

It happened to me twice that my general got toasted. And I usually get the "your bodyguards..." message every turn.I personally don't use that tactic because its boring to build the monastery, citadel and reliquary.

[miho]

that would mean that "training" your assasins using your own people (or your spies on your generals) to get them experience is also a sort of perversion

To back you up on this whos to say that kings of the medieval times didn't execute or frame someone who they didn't like.

[HopAlongBunny]

Yes, this discussion is probaly illegal in canada by now. Bin it as quickly as possible.

This may refer to a law in Canada which (going from a vague memory) classes any discussion including 3 or more ppl as a conspiracy; where those discussions are not pleasing to the gov't.

[Mithrandir]

I never did it...too much work for something which can be acclompished through battle as well, which is much more fun imho :).