Poll: Who was the first European or Asian to 'discover' America?

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Thread: Get in line, Columbus!

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  1. #1
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Get in line, Columbus!

    Yet again, it is being theorized that Christopher Columbus was not actually the 1st explorer sent by a developed nation in the Eastern Hemisphere to 'discover' the Americas. This time, it turns out, the Chinese claim their admiral, Zheng He (poor guy was a eunuch, what else to do with his free time?) sailed across the Pacific and discovered the Americas around 1418. Maybe I can find some magical potion to regrow 'em...

    Other explorers that have been offered as possibly 'beating Columbus to the Punch': St. Brendan (legend has it he sailed the North Atlantic in a currach, an ancient Irish leather canoe) and Leif Ericsson (sailing from Iceland in a drakkar). I believe Leif Ericsson could have (and did) make it to what's now NewFoundland, but I have a hard time imagining any leather canoe tough enough to make a trans-Atlantic voyage, AND be large enough for supplies. And of course, Thor Hyerdahl claims the Ancient Egyptians made it to Central America somewhere around 700B.C. Comments? Opinions? Fighting words? What dastard did the unthinkable and deserves to be flogged with a wet noodle for unleashing the horrors of the New World on the old?

    Sidenote: Italian Americans and other Columbus fans can always take comfort in the fact that Columbus was the first to establish any sort of permanent settlement here.
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 01-13-2006 at 20:11.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Meh, Zheng He could have travelled to the americas; the Chinese fleets at that time were massive; he sailed with 10's of thousands of men. I don't think there is real evidence of him having reached them though.

    I see no reason to be a fan of any of them, whether they discovered America or not.

  3. #3
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I picked Ericsson, but if you want to be really technical, the native Americans supposedly traveled to the continent from Asia across the Bering Strait. So they would be the first Asians to come here.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Yes, but they weren't departing an advanced civilization. They were barely up to stone age technology when they crossed the Berring land bridge.
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    1000 post member club Member Quid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I would like to believe that the Phoenicians travelled to the Americas first. Other than their boats (ships) being quite seaworthy and would probably have made it across the Atlantic, I have no proof whatsoever for it.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    There was show about this on the History channel and they claim the first americans came from france near the end of the ice age by crossing an ice bridge that existed then and settled in what is now known as Virginia.
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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Quote Originally Posted by quid
    I would like to believe that the Phoenicians travelled to the Americas first. Other than their boats (ships) being quite seaworthy and would probably have made it across the Atlantic, I have no proof whatsoever for it.

    Quid
    I *seriously* doubt if vessels that rate as "quite seaworthy" on the Med are the stock you cross oceans with. It's not like the Phoenicians had any real incentive to develop their shipbuilding in that direction anyway. Put this way: the only two seas I know of where the galley ever saw extensive use are the Mediterranean and (to a much smaller degree) the Baltic, both "closed" and fairly calm "inner seas".

    History tells us the galley, although perfectly serviceable on its own waters, is *not* something you want to tackle an open ocean in.
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  8. #8
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Yes, but they weren't departing an advanced civilization. They were barely up to stone age technology when they crossed the Berring land bridge.
    I would argue that the world still haven't seen and advanced civilizations....

  9. #9

    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Vespucci arrived before Columbus did anyway. Ericsson is proven to have arrived. He made several trips and made use of the large trees growing where he landed, which was in Northern Quebec, Labrado, Newfoundland and New Brunswick. Leif's brother was killed fighting natives after he led an attack on a native village and killed a number of them in their sleep.

  10. #10
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I'm pretty sure Zhang He got there some time before Columbus, although I may be placing too much stock in what little I've read of the 1421 book; as for the others, I'm less certain if they actually made it to the Americas.
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  11. #11
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Well, they have found a couple of rune stones and I believe a viking tomb in Labrador, (mabe NewFoundland, not sure) so if it wasn't Leif, it was somebody that looked and talked and acted a lot like him.

    I'm afraid I don't know enough about the Zheng He story to say if it's probable, but even if it is, he would have been 400 years behind Leif.
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  12. #12
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Get in line, Columbus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Sidenote: Italian Americans and other Columbus fans can always take comfort in the fact that Columbus was the first to establish any sort of permanent settlement here.
    More than a sidenote, this is the relevant criterium.

    The America's have had tens of millions of permanent inhabitants ever since the ice age. So the title of 'discovery of America' in the sense of like the first man on the moon goes to the native Americans.

    What's left is the title of 'discovery of America' in the meaning of starting permanent settlement and an enduring link between the old and new world. This one goes to Columbus' voyage, no doubt.

    It is not relevant how much (or better: how real) archeological evidence is unearthed in the Americas of contact with Phoenicians, Egyptians, Polynesians, west-Africans, Vikings, Chinese or what not. None of you speak Phoenician, Old-Norse or Chinese now, do you?
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  13. #13
    Humanist Senior Member A.Saturnus's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I´ve voted for Ericson. It´s proven that Brendan could have gone there but whether he did is highly uncertain.

    I have a lot of German ancestry; I guess I'd better make a claim for Germany (which didn't exist until the 1870s).
    Then you´d have to explain why it was called IInd Reich then

  14. #14
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Weren't the Vikings about the first ones with good enough navigation tools for a reliable crossing, though ? I seem to recall reading something like that once.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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  15. #15
    German Enthusiast Member Alexanderofmacedon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I do believe is was someone who went around the south part of present day South America.

    I don't remember the name and it's all very vague.


  16. #16

    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I'd put more trust into this baby

    But the monks in the currachs beat the longboats to Iceland didn't they .

    Anyhow it was the hebrews/early christians that crossed the atlantic first , ask the Mormons .

  17. #17
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    OK. So those things are large canoes with sails. My apologies. And some guy in the 70s did the same trip. Well done him. Still don't think any Irish monks of yesteryear did it first though. I'll stick with Columbus since we have definite proof of his crossing of the Atlantic and settlement of the New World. All the others are just stories occasionally reinforced with a scattering of evidence.

    Anyway I have documentary evidence at least as well corroborated as 1421 to say that Asterix was the first sea captain to reach the New World, but he didn't stay long. Something about in-laws...
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  18. #18
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Why would the American public school system lie to me? so coulmbus
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 01-15-2006 at 05:20.
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    Actual Person Member Paul Peru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    There are some fascinating theories, of course, and it would be cool if they were corroborated, but so far evidence points towards the Norse being first.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    an ancient Irish leather canoe
    Since when has a curragh been a canoe ?

    The Irish monk thing seems laughable. A canoe!
    Yeah a canoe ????

    Edit to add , Tim Severin sailed a currach to New York from Ireland in the mid'70s you might catch a repeat of the documentary about it on National Geographic .
    Last edited by Tribesman; 01-14-2006 at 16:02.

  21. #21
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    People should read the Severin articles, very interesting stuff. I don't want to sound rude but Slyp you don't seem to know what are on about mate.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    A curragh in its element:



    They are certainly capable of crossing the Atlantic, after all it has been achieved in the modern era in one-man rowing boats, but these people knew what was on the other side, the Celts of the sixth century didn't.

    However, I can understand and believe in the the nordic achievement because they had even better ocean-going craft, a long and successful record as explorers and mariners, and they were feeling their way along the northern margins of the Atlantic, logically extending their knowledge and skills. There doesn't seem to be anything comparable in the Celtic tradition.
    Last edited by Red Peasant; 01-14-2006 at 17:37.
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  23. #23
    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    an ancient Irish leather canoe
    Since when has a curragh been a canoe ?

    The Irish monk thing seems laughable. A canoe!
    Yeah a canoe ????

    Edit to add , Tim Severin sailed a currach to New York from Ireland in the mid'70s you might catch a repeat of the documentary about it on National Geographic .
    If everyone starts claiming their ancestors were the first Eurasians to the Americas, the Chinese or Indians of southern Asia will win.

    I have a lot of German ancestry; I guess I'd better make a claim for Germany (which didn't exist until the 1870s).


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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    I'd put more trust into this baby


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Get in line, Columbus!

    This is a Monastery thread.
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