A Nerdy Question on LOTR

[Shaka_Khan]

I'm curious to what Middle Earth would be like after the reign of King Elessar. I heard that JRR Tolkien started on a sequel but changed his mind and didn't finish it. The story would've been a time when there were very few elves in Middle Earth, and the Hobbits were hard to find. Middle Earth still had orcs around but not as many and as threatening as before. What would the sequel be like?
I think one of the important elements to the sequel would be how King Elessar's son's character would be. I know that King Elessar's reign was a time of good life for Middle Earth. King Elessar and Queen Arwen were compassionate people, so I think they would've given their kids a lot of love. They seemed to be wise, so I think they would've educated their kids well. Would their kids become spoiled or kind?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Uh...you know your LOTR don't you?...

Unfortunetly I can't say the same about myself. I'll put J.R.R's books on my "To read" list and I'll get back to you!

[Brutus]

I thought that Middle Earth was more or less meant to be an ancient, mythical precursor of our own recorded history (with the West as Europe, Harad ('South') as Africa and Rhun ('East') as Asia), so I would imagine Middle Earth would be more and more about conflicts between men, as there are hardly any other races about: no more Elves, less and less Orcs, Ents dying out and Hobbits and Dwarves not showing themselves very much (and probably dying off as well). The Lord of the Rings already mentions Elessar and Eomer campaining in Rhun against the Easterlings, I suppose this would have continued under Eldarion and beyond?

[Dutch_guy]

I dont think that Middle-Earth would know War for a very long time to come,not taking in to consideration the aftermath of the War of the Ring.


I also do not think that with Aragorn and Arwen as his parents the child would grow to be spoiled.

My opinion on the matter.

[Gregoshi]

I know there is some stuff Tolkien wrote to connect Middle Earth with England and the world we know. I haven't read any yet, just some skimming in the book stores and a section of The Book of Lost Tales 2, which I haven't finished reading yet. It talks of a man named Eriol or AElfwine (the "A" and the "E" are joined together but I don't know how to make that character) who sailed from England to Tol Eressea - the elven island just off the coast of Valinor. However, with the incomplete writings that Tolkien had done on this, men are rarely mentioned. Of the fate of the Men and the Fourth Age, I don't recall seeing, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

...and apparently there is some stuff. I just did a Google search and found this article on the Fourth Age, written by the folks that do the MERP game (Middle Earth Role Playing): Martinez Article From what I gather, Tolkien did write a few pages on a LOTR sequel called The New Shadow but abandoned it as uninteresting to him. There must be enough in the story beginnings and in letters to give some hints at the future of Men in the Fourth Age.

[lars573]

I thought that Middle Earth was more or less meant to be an ancient, mythical precursor of our own recorded history (with the West as Europe, Harad ('South') as Africa and Rhun ('East') as Asia), so I would imagine Middle Earth would be more and more about conflicts between men, as there are hardly any other races about: no more Elves, less and less Orcs, Ents dying out and Hobbits and Dwarves not showing themselves very much (and probably dying off as well). The Lord of the Rings already mentions Elessar and Eomer campaining in Rhun against the Easterlings, I suppose this would have continued under Eldarion and beyond?

Actually Aragorn made quite a bit or war during his first years on the throne of Gondor. He was re-establishing the Gondor of the early third age after all. His campagin to restore Arnor wouldn't have been short or bloodless. He would have after all had to crush any tribe in former Arnor that didn't bend knee and swear alligance to him. Also he did campagin against the Haradrim and re-took Umbria for Gondor IIRC.

[Sjakihata]

AElfwine (the "A" and the "E" are joined together but I don't know how to make that character)

Ælfwine

ps. basic danish character

[Weebeast]

They seemed to be wise, so I think they would've educated their kids well. Would their kids become spoiled or kind?

Well, I'm guessing the children would be a great fighter and/or leader. I wonder if Arwen still had her regular power after she officially became mortal. The kids should at least inherit her talent.

It says that the gap between our time and end of Third Age is 6000 years.

[Sjakihata]

I think their children would be two, a girl and a boy. The girl wants to be like her father and the boy like his mother, a fighter girl and a sorcerer boy

[Papewaio]

Slight OT:

Is there such a thing as a non-nerdy question on LOTR?

[lars573]

I think their children would be two, a girl and a boy. The girl wants to be like her father and the boy like his mother, a fighter girl and a sorcerer boy

Hey, hey only angels can be Wizards in LOTR.

Slight OT:

Is there such a thing as a non-nerdy question on LOTR?

Probably not. Beyond is it good or not?

[Monarch]

Well I tried reading the books after watching TFOTR film, but I just couldnt get into it. Kinda more difficult than a pleasure to read. So I put it down and just watched the other two films. This was when I was a few years ago now, when I was like 12 so I do have an excuse for putting them down. If I had the time I would probably enjoy reading them now. The mythology behind it I find is very interesting, I've read the wikipedia articles on the mytho and stories that are included and mentioned, very interesting.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

READ THE HOBBIT!

*Beats everyone who has tried to read LOTR before the Hobbit with all of the movie extended DVD editions*

Um. Sorry about the beating. But if you haven't already, try the The Hobbit, also by JRR Tolkien.

[Monk]

i know i'm going to pay for this... but here comes a nerd on LOTR!

Aragorn and Areyn would have one son, the heir, and a number of unnamed daughters who's number i've forgotten. The aftermath of the wotr saw a founding of a new dwarf kingdom in the back of helm's deep, Gondor raising new armies and launching campaigns to reclaim lost land. A group of dwarves restoring the walls of Minas Tirith. The Lorien elves leaving their city abandonded (the place of Arwen's death later) to travel to Valinor making The elves of mirkwood the last elves in middle earth. and yes, they stayed in middle earth afaik.

Gandalf leaving middle earth, the last 3 wizards (yep, three..) would stay out of affairs of men for the large part. Except for the two blue wizards but i cant find anything on them now,[theory] i think they founded cults far in the east.

The ents would become "treeish" without the entwives, and by the way.[theory] The ent wives are somewhere near the shire. Look for a passage in the first chapter of fotr where sam says something about a living and walking tree being spotted. Though there was only one witness to it so no one believed it.

The shire grew to incorparate buckland and westmarch. and was protected within the borders of the new united kingdom

Um. Sorry about the beating. But if you haven't already, try the The Hobbit, also by JRR Tolkien.

is it just me or was hobbit a more interesting book than lotr? i found it not as spread out and easier to read.

[Gregoshi]

Monk, except for the part about the Entwives (which I didn't know), my knowledge of events matches yours. I'll add that special notice should be given to Gimli, who was granted special permission to sail to Valinor with Legolas. He was the only dwarf ever given such an honour.

As for comparing The Hobbit with LotR, they are different in a few ways. The Hobbit is written as if being told around the campfire by a storyteller and has many light, humourous parts. On the other hand, LotR is written more like a traditional novel and has a very serious tone to it.

[lars573]

i know i'm going to pay for this... but here comes a nerd on LOTR!

Aragorn and Areyn would have one son, the heir, and a number of unnamed daughters who's number i've forgotten. The aftermath of the wotr saw a founding of a new dwarf kingdom in the back of helm's deep, Gondor raising new armies and launching campaigns to reclaim lost land. A group of dwarves restoring the walls of Minas Tirith. The Lorien elves leaving their city abandonded (the place of Arwen's death later) to travel to Valinor making The elves of mirkwood the last elves in middle earth. and yes, they stayed in middle earth afaik.

Gandalf leaving middle earth, the last 3 wizards (yep, three..) would stay out of affairs of men for the large part. Except for the two blue wizards but i cant find anything on them now,[theory] i think they founded cults far in the east.

The ents would become "treeish" without the entwives, and by the way.[theory] The ent wives are somewhere near the shire. Look for a passage in the first chapter of fotr where sam says something about a living and walking tree being spotted. Though there was only one witness to it so no one believed it.

The shire grew to incorparate buckland and westmarch. and was protected within the borders of the new united kingdom.

I'll add that in TTT when Merry and Pippin tell Treebeard where the shire is he states that is where he thinks the Entwifes buggered off too. And if they'd ever seen them. M/P tell Treebeard that they've heard stories about living trees but though they were just fairy stories to enthrall the little ones. [theory] the woods that Tom Bombadil lives in is actually the Entwifes and they've just all become "treeish" and are asleep.

[Meneldil]

Gandalf leaving middle earth, the last 3 wizards (yep, three..) would stay out of affairs of men for the large part. Except for the two blue wizards but i cant find anything on them now,[theory] i think they founded cults far in the east.

The 2 unrecorded Wizards apparently left for the pleasures of the East. The first one is Palanto the Blue (according to the LotR cards game), but I don't remember the name of the other one (though I think he was the Purple or something among those lines).

It sounds kinda nerdy aswell, but I wish some good writer would write other LotR/Middle Earth related stuffs. There are so much things I'd like to know more, so many tales and stories that aren't really explained in the existing book. But then of course, most fans would turn mad and claim it's a bunch of ***p, doesn't have the original Tolkien feeling and so on.

[lars573]

The only wizard names I know are Saruman the white, Gandalf the grey, and Rhadagast the brown.

[Dutch_guy]

What ever became of Radagast the Brown...?

There is no mention of him getting killed - as a matter of fact there isn't much information on him in the LOTR books.

[drone]

After Saruman tricked Rhadagast into sending Gandalf to Saruman's trap at Isengard, I don't remember him being mentioned anymore.

Slight OT:

Is there such a thing as a non-nerdy question on LOTR?

How about this one: Does Peter Jackson have a swimming pool filled with cash, or does he just light cigars with $100 bills?

[Dutch_guy]

well Rhadagast was still alive after he sent Gandalf to Isengard, he was the one who gave the eagles the infromation they needed to eventually help Gandalf off the tower of Isengard.
After that I don't know what happened to him...

[lars573]

How about this one: Does Peter Jackson have a swimming pool filled with cash, or does he just light cigars with $100 bills?

I'm betting on the pool filled with cash. That's what I'd have.

[Monk]

well Rhadagast was still alive after he sent Gandalf to Isengard, he was the one who gave the eagles the infromation they needed to eventually help Gandalf off the tower of Isengard.
After that I don't know what happened to him...

[theory on my part]
Rhadagast was said to have loved the beasts of middle-earth far more than elves, men, or dwarves. So it's likely that he would have strived to protect them and guide them much like Gandalf attempted to do in his time with the peoples of middle-earth. After a few parts in lotr he isn't mentioned at all.. iirc.

i remember he once dwelled at Rhosgobel on the very edge of Mirkwood. He was there at the time of The Hobbitfor Gandalf says 'my good cousin Radagast who lives near the Southern borders of Mirkwood', yet when the council of Eldrond happened in LOTR, gandalf says he "at one time dwelt at Rhosgobel".

so its really anyone's guess as to where he went, and what he ended up doing.

Had to actually look that up and double check it with http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ to make sure and get the lines exactly right.

How about this one: Does Peter Jackson have a swimming pool filled with cash, or does he just light cigars with $100 bills?

i'd like the swimming pool.. just beware of paper cuts..

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
After Elassar and Arwen Undómiel it would become just another kingdom of men. The overall lifelength of the D​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​únedain would continue to fall as they get more and more mixed up with the lesser Men.

The Dwarves probably got extinct in time. Already before the WotR they had but 1/3rd female population and were not too much into marrying.

The elves of the Mirkwood probably left the Middle-earth gradually as well. Some inconsistency may be observed in Tolkien's dealing with their destiny but if we take his word in the appendix to LotR, then there should not have remained any elves. Another possibility is that they might have become Men --willingly or else. They might have been given the Gift of Men afterwards but I don't have anything to back this up.

The ents most probably became trees. Entwiwes, why, already migrated to Americas. What do you think the Pequoyas are?

The Hobbits must still be lurking somewhere over there.

Radagast remains as a question. So does Tom Bombadil, who stands somewhat out of the world for his entire appearance, together with his household and dominion.


.

[Dutch_guy]

I think that Bombadil will simply stay where he is...deep in the forrest, untill the end of the world.

Just a theory though, haven't got the proof to back that up.

Also , is he immortal ? I do think he is, don't remember that being discussed in the books ( hobbit and LOTR ), does anyone know ?

[aw89]

If I remember correctly (Big if) there was something about him being there since the ents were young (Or something explaining he was really old) and was going to live until men disappeared too. (Or somesuch)

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
I overread some talk about Fangorn (Treebeard) being inspired by C.S. Lewis; it seems like this Bombadil might be someone close to Tolkien, or inspired by him.
.

[The Stranger]

who knows Earthsea...i saw the movie...all those stories seem to have su,thing in common and it looks very much like Harry potter has huge amounts of things that are virtually the same with Earthsea, LotR and CoNarnia

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
So they made Narnia too into a movie finally huh? I saw the ads on the TV. Though, my only experience with it was a kiddy dramatization on the BBC.
.

[Togakure]

The two Istari known as the "blue wizards" were named Alatar and Pallando. They purportedly went into the East and came not again into the tales of men.

Most of the the information regarding the fourth age is found in the Appendices of the Return of the King.