the yeuzhi

[antiochus epiphanes]

i have a quick question, will you keep the yeuzhi in the mod?(please say yes)
also i want to read about them, does anybody have a website that they would recomende?

[Arman616]

I say keep the yeuzhi. They add more battling and activity in the east. Which is good!

[pezhetairoi]

It sure gets boring with only Baktria in the east as we know it... I say keep the yuezhi. But subeshi archers with 0 upkeep is just gay :-

[Spendios]

The Yuezhi are an interesting faction to play, they just need more variety in their troops !

[Malrubius]

We had a public thread on this, and nobody could really defend their inclusion; they don't show up on our map for a hundred years. Any of you want to mount a good historical defense?

[pezhetairoi]

alright, i forgot about that awhile. Scrap the Yuezhi. I go for history. Scrap the Yuezhi, nevermind if the east becomes boring, since the only other choice would have to be Maurya, and that is so impossible... Something to give the Sweboz a challenge apart from Eleutheroi would be nice too, but that also was nonexistent historically. So. -_-

[GodEmperorLeto]

We had a public thread on this, and nobody could really defend their inclusion; they don't show up on our map for a hundred years. Any of you want to mount a good historical defense?

I was rather unsatisfied with the results of that thread, and after playing a little both with, and against, the Yuezhi, I feel that their exclusion would only be warranted if another faction was added in a predominantly vacant quadrant, such as an Arab faction in southern Arabia, or an African nation further down the Nile.

I understand that they didn't hit the scene for a hundred years. But the scope of the game goes beyond simply a hundred years. By the middle of the 2nd century AD, Epirus was wiped out, Carthage and Thebes were in flames. Boom, two, maybe three game factions gone within 125 years of gameplay (Epirus, Greece, Carthage).

Especially since Epirus was only a really powerful faction against Rome under the reign of Pyrrhus, I can't condone its inclusion in a region already rife with factions and unit diversity, while a corner of the world goes empty simply because the Yuezhi weren't there at the start of the game.

Despite historical inaccuracy, I believe the Yuezhi add to the modification in a positive way. Indeed, I will argue the same for Epirus, because they enhance gameplay in the Adriatic front quite a bit, but if the Yuezhi are dropped, then Epirus should be, too.

So if you drop them, who do you replace them with? I would honestly prefer seeing a Mauryan faction, but I perfectly understand why it would be almost pointless to add one. The game offers opportunities for the Mauryans to expand beyond India, but that is a rather pointless hypothetical exercise in unlikelihood, and they'd be missing half of their empire on the Ganges. When I first heard the Numidians had been scrapped I was disappointed until I realized the game works just as well in North Africa without them, honestly. So who is left? Arabs? Ethiopians? Thracians?

You'd have to convince me that one of those factions present in the game will enhance it as much as the Yuezhi did. An Arab faction probably would. Ethiopians <i>might</i>. Thracians are better left Rebels, like Numidia.

In other words, removing them may seem logical from a historical point of view, in terms of influence, but in terms of gameplay, their inclusion may be worthwhile, unless you can replace them with a faction that will do more for the game than they will.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Especially since Epirus was only a really powerful faction against Rome under the reign of Pyrrhus, I can't condone its inclusion in a region already rife with factions and unit diversity, while a corner of the world goes empty simply because the Yuezhi weren't there at the start of the game.

If we had started our game one year later, or even a season or two later, then you are right - we probably wouldn't even have Epeiros in as a faction. And it wasn't set up that way - but as we were adding our last two factions to the game we realized it was perfect for having Pyrrhos and even control over the heel of Italy. So it does work out very well for players who would like to try their hand at a little different type of Hellenic faction.

It just doesn't look like there is any argument at all that will allow for the inclusion of the Yuezhi in 272 on our map though unfortunately. Believe me, I think almost all the members would like to keep them if we could. Especially since a fair amount of work has already been sunk into them.

[Malrubius]

I even did some Yuezhi traits and ancillaries!

[Byzantine Mercenary]

units with 0 upkeep? in EB? Realy? wow!

[Megalos]

This may have been mentioned in another thread somewhere, so I apologise if it has.

So the yeuzhi were not around as a nation until a hundred years after the game starts, but i'm guessing that the area was still populated by nomadic peoples who used the same kind of composite bow and rode around on the ponies from the steppes.

So why don't you just change the name Yuezhi for something more general, representing all the tribes in that area, around at the time of game start.

Then 100 hundred years into the game you could script that the tribes have been united under one banner, and are now known as the Yeuzhi. (or something similar)

Obviously you can't change the name of a faction mid-way through a campaign (at least i don't so), but you could give special traits that are only available after the "unification" like "king of the Yuezhi" or what ever it's equivalent title is and you could even give out negative traits to represent seperatism before the unification.

[Greek_fire19]

How about another steppe faction that's further east than the sarmatians? The Sakae for example, or the Alanni? I personally would prefer a second german confederation, but I can see the value of having someone else in the east.

[Epistolary Richard]

I even did some Yuezhi traits and ancillaries!

The only skins I've done for EB were Yuezhi

Plus we have a great faction defeated symbol for them

[antiochus epiphanes]

The only skins I've done for EB were Yuezhi

Plus we have a great faction defeated symbol for them

reallly? cause that is my favorite faction in the game
i really hope you dont drop them.....

[PseRamesses]

Does anyone know why the Romans are at war with them from the start?

[cunctator]

That is a bug, I believe a culture swap leftover. It will be fixed in the next version.

[jebes]

If by fixed you mean removed from the game...

[PseRamesses]

If by fixed you mean removed from the game...

Hmm, I´ve long had that thought even with RTR. Cut out the whole "Indian corridor" making Bactria the most eastern part of the map and freeing up one faction for the Mediterranean area or even somewhere on the Arabian peninsula plus some 5-6 province that could tighten things up where it´s elsewhere better needed. The Y. are so remote that Bactria and Seleukia are the only ones that comes into physical (military) contact with them. Remove them!

[jebes]

Well, the Saratomae do later in the game, but I don't think that is exactly the plan. I have not heard any comments about moving the border to the west, but rather just removing the Yuezhi because their presence is not quite historical for 272 AD

[GodEmperorLeto]

If we had started our game one year later, or even a season or two later, then you are right - we probably wouldn't even have Epeiros in as a faction. And it wasn't set up that way - but as we were adding our last two factions to the game we realized it was perfect for having Pyrrhos and even control over the heel of Italy. So it does work out very well for players who would like to try their hand at a little different type of Hellenic faction.

I'll agree playing Rome with Epirus in S. Italia makes things more interesting. Like I said earlier, their presence does add something. But if you are chopping the Yuezhi, Epirus isn't really all that important right now. And in the historical scheme of things, it was only really a serious threat for about 20 years, until Pyrrhus ended up dead in the Argolid.

Eh, I figure even if the Yuezhi get chopped, Epirus will stay around just to make the early campaign more interesting for Greek and Roman factions.

It just doesn't look like there is any argument at all that will allow for the inclusion of the Yuezhi in 272 on our map though unfortunately. Believe me, I think almost all the members would like to keep them if we could. Especially since a fair amount of work has already been sunk into them.

That's a damn shame. Especially since they'd make the late game much more interesting. I'll reiterate: I understand that they weren't there in 272 BC. But from a gameplay standpoint, they make the game better in the later turns. I'm currently playing Rome and somehow missed the 14 AD CTD, and am fighting them, Bactria and Parthia over the rubble of the Seleucid empire in the 50s BC. From a gameplay standpoint, their inclusion has made the game better for me.

I'll just say it again, if they are removed, another faction should be included to make the game just as interesting. We already have enough factions in Northern Europe, in my opinion. I'd like to see something in Arabia, or a Nubia/Punt/Meroe/Axum/Ethiopia/etc. faction. A Arab faction in Yemen might be interesting. An army was sent by the Romans to conquer a kingdom there and though they were defeated, the Roman army returned with booty, and made quite an impression on the Arabs there.

As for the work you guys did on the Yuezhi, well, keep the units and make them Eleutheroi, if possible.

It's a shame you can't overcome the hard-coded limitations on factions.

Perhaps a campaign that starts in the 150s, right around the Gracchi, after Carthage was burned, could be added to the game. Then, the Yuezhi could be included. But that might be a suggestion for another thread....

[jebes]

You should check the unoffical late period project in EB Unofficial Modding Projects. It starts later on.

[GodEmperorLeto]

You should check the unoffical late period project in EB Unofficial Modding Projects. It starts later on.

Yeah, wow, I totally forgot about them. Darn.

Well, then, Teleklos Archelaou, Epistolary Richard, and Malrubius have a place to take there work, since the Yuezhi were in place in 104 BC, and Epirus, Macedon, and Carthage will be out of the running, freeing up room for their faction to exist.

[DeadRunner]

yuezhi will be taken off the EB ???

[Ludens]

yuezhi will be taken off the EB ???

It's not definte, but very likely. Two statements from Khelvan in the other Yuezhi thread (one quoted from another thread by yours truly) indicate so (statement one; statement two).

[Arman]

Sakae was on their place before they arrived. But Sakae were way not that strong and agressive.