How is AP more effective against Armor than without Armor

**antisocialmunky** · 02-22-2006, 12:58

Are you factoring out the shields?

**L'Impresario** · 02-22-2006, 13:03

Well, in reality they aren't more effective per se; they just negate(the magic word being "negate" here) the armour bonus, so you hit home more often than just making nice dents on your enemy's plate.

**econ21** · 02-22-2006, 13:05

AP is not more effective against armor than without. It merely reduces the extra protection of the armour. I forget the exact formula, but it something like AP bonus = (Armour-3)/2.

Consider an unarmoured person - they get no benefit from armour.

An armoured person vs non-AP weapon - they get the armour stat added to their defense

An armoured person vs AP weapon - they get [Armour - AP bonus] added to their defense. This is always positive and so they are still better off than the unarmoured person.

**Ludens** · 02-22-2006, 13:07

AP is not more effective against a unit with armour. If all other stats except for armour are equal, an unarmoured unit will suffer worse from the attacks of an AP unit than an armoured one. It is just that an AP unit gets an attack bonus against armoured units, and this bonus is never greater than the defense bonus confered by the armour.

I would really like to know where this misconceptions stems from. It reappears every few months, and even made its way into Froggy's Unit Guide.

**drone** · 02-22-2006, 17:26

I think some of the misconception comes from various guides saying it is a waste to attack unarmored units with AP units. It's not that they are worse, it's just that they could be better utilized on an armored opponent. I think this got misinterpreted into "don't use AP units against non-armored ones".

**Ghost of Rom** · 02-23-2006, 09:58

I don't think armor piercers are more effective versus armored units than the same exact unit without armor. But when it come down to the best use of your florins, you do try to avoid matchups that give your enemy large bonus's. Ie (cav vrs halberd).

**Budwise** · 02-24-2006, 09:44

Originally Posted by drone

I think some of the misconception comes from various guides saying it is a waste to attack unarmored units with AP units. It's not that they are worse, it's just that they could be better utilized on an armored opponent. I think this got misinterpreted into "don't use AP units against non-armored ones".

I guess thats where I get it. Thanks for all the corrections

**littlebktruck** · 02-24-2006, 19:28

So armor does confer a defensive bonus?

**ajaxfetish** · 02-25-2006, 01:17

Yep. Each point of armor raises the defense by 1 as well. Armor has the added advantage of protecting against missiles as well (which defense from other sources does not), but the disadvantage of increasing the weight on the soldiers and thus speeding up fatigue.

Ajax

**CBR** · 02-25-2006, 02:30

The defensive stat of a unit (as you can see when hitting F1 during a battle) is based on the armour, shield, skill and what weapon the unit are using.

All that has been added in a spreadsheet to give a total defensive stat that you see under F1 (of course extra valor on a unit will increase defensive stat too)
*edit: the defensive bonus from a shield is added in game and not from the spreadsheet.

A unit's basic defense value, based on only armour is:

Armour/defense stat
1/-2
2/0
3/2
4/3
5/4
6/5

As you can see the two first armour values each gives two more in defense, but after that its only one extra for each added armour value.
**Edit: In VI another armour was added: 3/1. Basically armour that was still nice against missile but not as good in melee.

AP melee weapons gives the following bonuses to attack:

armour/bonus
1/0
2/0
3/+1
4/+1
5/+2
6/+2

Thats for infantry. For cavalry add one extra to the armour before getting a bonus. And of course the armour value you see under F1 might have shield armour value added(either 1 or 2) and melee AP doesnt get anything against shield.

Missile weapons works a bit different. They have a armour penetration multiplier instead. Arbs have 0.3, crossbows 0.4, longbows 0.5 and standard bows 1.0 (meaning nothing special). So the lower the number the less effect a unit gets from its armour and shield/pavise but of course it still makes it better having some armour than none at all.

CBR