The creation of the Universe.

[Ice]

Oh good, another one of these threads. We just need our friendly fanatical liberals and we will be good.

I'm a Christian, I believe God did create the universe, but I also believe in science. I believe he did through the big bang theory. As it was stated earlier in the dicussion, you can't take the Bible litterally. Well you can, but think about it...

[Divinus Arma]

Well. I pretty much gave all my views just a moment ago in the "What is Your religion: Part II " thread.

This is a fun topic. I want to play too.

[Zain]

The way you talk about it, he would want less debating, but there are other ways to think about it. I've got to go, so I'll talk to you later.

-ZainDustin

[Lemur]

He was two-timing us, DA, talking to you in one thread and me in another. I feel used.

[Zain]

How are you used? I was just debating two different people at two different places.

-ZainDustin

[Lemur]

Humor, Zain. Humor.

[Tribesman]

Humor, Zain. Humor.
Not on the Sabbath Lemur

[Divinus Arma]

ZainDustin, Lemur is a respected and respectful member of the backroom. We may not agree with each other, and I happen to think he is liberal slime (that's a joke mods), but ultimately, Lemur is good people back here.

ZainDustin, unfortunately distance communication technology like forums, email, and MSN Messenger all lack the subtle interpersonal cues we rely on in day to day conversation. Sometimes it is hard to tell if someone is being a jerk or making a joke- we lack the smile, the roll of the eyes, a half-cocked eyebrow. If you always assume the best, you will never find yourself insulting or being insulted.

This is a great topic, though, and we are glad to have you back here.

Warm Regards Buddy.


And as for you, Lemur... you liberal scum you, I agree with all your points on biblical interpretation. I also concur that debate is healthy for all involved. Debate is no threat to one's faith. It only reinforces beliefs by explaining cracks. A fear of debate should make one suspicious of the snake oil being sold.

[Big_John]

m-theory holds the key.

[KukriKhan]

...We may not agree with each other, and I happen to think he is liberal slime (that's a joke mods),...

:flips open the Moderator's Guide to Humor:

Hmmm.

Non-specific insult, smiley (nice spoonerism: smile/slime), disclaimer...

OK!

[JimBob]

The question that's been raised is "Does the Bible say exactly how God made the Earth?" Did he use a giant EZ-Bake oven? Do they sell Shake and Bake Humanity on some higher plane?
Does the Bible say exactly how long those days were? (Thank you Clarence Darrow) What is time to God?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Does the Bible say exactly how long those days were? (Thank you Clarence Darrow) What is time to God?

Man: God, how long is a million years to you?
God: A minute.
Man: God, how much is a million dollars to you?
God: A penny.
Man: God, can I have a penny?
God: In a minute.

[Quietus]

Let's hear it, how was the Universe created, and be prepared to be questioned.

Nobody knows how it "was created" or "came about".

[InsaneApache]

I find creation myths fascinating. A lot of the ancient religions tell of a great flood for example. This indicates to me a cataclysmic event that unfolded back in our pre-historical past. (Black Sea anyone?)

As for the universe, it is my opinion that to all intents and purposes it's always been there. In the human time scale, that is.

The Bible was early bronze age mans attempt to explain the world around him. As other 'good' books of that era are. Having no knowledge of physics, chemistry or biology, they had to try and find reasons for natural events. So they decided that a supreme being must be the answer.

As for taking the Bible literally, possibly, as long as we go back to living in tents and herding goats, then it might work.

BTW Kukri congrats on the promotion.

[Shaka_Khan]

Christian's jobs are to lead people to God, and believe everything in the bible. The bible says that the Universe was created by God's hand, so the definition of Christian is one who believes Everything in the bible. If you don't, you need help. (You meaning anyone). Christians who believe in Big Bang are definently not on the same page as God.

-ZainDustin

We could say that God created the universe with a Big Bang. Then we all can agree on the Big Bang, unless someone prooves the Big Bang to be wrong.

[Keba]

An image says a thousand words ...



I don't really bother with what came before.

[Dutch_guy]

As for the universe, it is my opinion that to all intents and purposes it's always been there. In the human time scale, that is.

The Bible was early bronze age mans attempt to explain the world around him. As other 'good' books of that era are. Having no knowledge of physics, chemistry or biology, they had to try and find reasons for natural events. So they decided that a supreme being must be the answer.

As for taking the Bible literally, possibly, as long as we go back to living in tents and herding goats, then it might work.

BTW Kukri congrats on the promotion.

That's more or less how I think about it

[doc_bean]

All I know about how it was written was that God used these people as vessels to write the bible.

But what about the translators and the editors ? Where they divinely inspired too ?

[Upxl]

We could say that God created the universe with a Big Bang. Then we all can agree on the Big Bang, unless someone prooves the Big Bang to be wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong ,but wasn't the big bang just a theory?
It's not yet been proven, true?

Big bang: first there was nothing, and then that blew up as well.

[InsaneApache]

The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.

In 1927, the Belgian priest Georges Lemaître was the first to propose that the universe began with the explosion of a primeval atom. His proposal came after observing the red shift in distant nebulas by astronomers to a model of the universe based on relativity. Years later, Edwin Hubble found experimental evidence to help justify Lemaître's theory. He found that distant galaxies in every direction are going away from us with speeds proportional to their distance.

The big bang was initially suggested because it explains why distant galaxies are traveling away from us at great speeds. The theory also predicts the existence of cosmic background radiation (the glow left over from the explosion itself). The Big Bang Theory received its strongest confirmation when this radiation was discovered in 1964 by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who later won the Nobel Prize for this discovery.

Although the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted, it probably will never be proved; consequentially, leaving a number of tough, unanswered questions.

[_Martyr_]

Correct me if I'm wrong ,but wasn't the big bang just a theory?
It's not yet been proven, true?

So is aerodynamic lift, are you sure you want to chance getting on a plane?

[Dâriûsh]

I believe that in the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.




Heh, honestly I believe that the origin of the universe is one of the many mysteries of God.

Edit:

We could say that God created the universe with a Big Bang.

This is actually pretty close to what I think.

[Kanamori]

The Big Bang was created as a christian explanation to how the universe was created, and it was initially opposed by many who saw it as an extension of religiousity in science. In fact, the Catholic church has officially accepted it as compatible with The Bible.

[BDC]

Christian's jobs are to lead people to God, and believe everything in the bible. The bible says that the Universe was created by God's hand, so the definition of Christian is one who believes Everything in the bible. If you don't, you need help. (You meaning anyone). Christians who believe in Big Bang are definently not on the same page as God.

-ZainDustin

So you believe in women covering their heads and slavery being fine and stuff?

Anyway if God fails to understand his own universe, the name isn't God, it's manipulative controller and he isn't an all-powerful being, he's a human who wants power.

Simply what the universe looks like suggests the big bang. You can 'see' this (or at least an ancient universe billions of years old) by certain frequencies of electro-magnetic radiation. So claiming this isn't so is no different from claiming what you see in front of you with your eyes is not what it is. Hey look it's a banana! No, wait, it's a house, because this book here says so.

[BigTex]

I believe the big bang created the universe as we know it today. Its a simple and understandable theory, big explosion spreads matters around, matter gathers together forms supermassive black holes, supermassive black holes create stars in surounding matter. Stars gravity helps to produce planets planet, walla earth. What I cant explain nor have I heard an explaination of is how the matter that was condensed to such a point got there in the first place. Obviously matter doesnt appear out of nowhere now, so it had to come from someplace, which is why there is room for a diety. We still know very little about our universe ad have much to learn. I would be curious as to whether or not a big bang hasnt happened many times in the past recreating the universe. Whether or not there are more universes out there, much like galaxies. Until the day we know everything about the universe I think something had to help out the big bang a little bit to get started.

[Zain]

Let's change the subject just a little bit to Evolution. Fact or not?

-ZainDustin

[Zain]

I have a way of disclaiming Big Bang from Evolution, and discrediting both of them in themselves. Please, someone explain Evolution for me, the best way you can.

-ZainDustin

[InsaneApache]

No. Create a new thread.

I believe the big bang created the universe as we know it today. Its a simple and understandable theory, big explosion spreads matters around, matter gathers together forms supermassive black holes, supermassive black holes create stars in surounding matter. Stars gravity helps to produce planets planet, walla earth. What I cant explain nor have I heard an explaination of is how the matter that was condensed to such a point got there in the first place. Obviously matter doesnt appear out of nowhere now, so it had to come from someplace, which is why there is room for a diety. We still know very little about our universe ad have much to learn. I would be curious as to whether or not a big bang hasnt happened many times in the past recreating the universe. Whether or not there are more universes out there, much like galaxies. Until the day we know everything about the universe I think something had to help out the big bang a little bit to get started.

We (humans) may never know. That doesn't preclude the fact they we will try. God willing.

[_Martyr_]

Stop talking in terms of "fact". Science rarely deals with facts, instead with theories which over time are refined and improved and brought more into focus with observable data and hypothesis. Which, as new data is collected and advances are made in our understanding, can be replaced by new theories which better explain the phenomenon in question. The best example of this is Newton and Einstein. The former described Newtonian Mechanics, the latter found that Newton's Laws were merely a special case of Relativity. Was Newton wrong? Not really, he just didnt have the full picture. His laws are still probably the most common laws used in Engineering today. Who knows what the next advance will bring into focus, I very much doubt we have the full picture now. This is what is termed the Scientific Process. Nothing is really absolute. The beauty lies in the flexibility.

Mirco-evolution is pretty undisputable at this stage. It can be directly observed and indeed controlled in a laboratory. Macro-evolution is disputed by some, but the vast majority of scientists accept it, but may dispute many details.

[Zain]

Nothing is really absolute.

You probably didn't mean this in a certain way, but when you mean Nothing, you mean Nothing, right?

So, you're telling me that I'm not absolutely sitting here, typing? You mean I could actually be walking in the streets of Sydney, Australia drinking a Cocktail?

-ZainDustin