texas and drinking in bars follow-up

[solypsist]

in a previous thread, as an aside, i mentioned how in some parts, "Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk. Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness..." Some people here agreed and some didn't, with the intent and practice.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060323/...eople_drunk_dc

i recently read they startd arresting registered guests at hotel bars, too.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=49397

i have to wonder just what the next step will be...

[Redleg]

in a previous thread, as an aside, i mentioned how in some parts, "Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk. Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness..." Some people here agreed and some didn't, with the intent and practice.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060323/...eople_drunk_dc

i recently read they startd arresting registered guests at hotel bars, too.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=49397

i have to wonder just what the next step will be...

I believe both stories come out of Irving, if I read them correctly, and are refering to the exact same situation and event (ie the date line on both articles is the same date). Which if you know the DFW area you would begin to understand why such stupidity is happening.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What city is always after extra income because it fails to maintain its budget? What event was happening in the Dallas Area during that time frame? Which would generate extra revenue for the city.

[Don Corleone]

What's defined as public drunkeness? The typical DUI limits of 0.08 or 0.07 are usually set at the point that your reflexes show the FIRST signs of impairment, not that you are in fact out of your senses. If somebody blows a 0.20, I'd say yes, they are certainly drunk.

It sounds to me like an end run around liquor laws by a Pentecostal or Baptist Sheriff.

Funny thing... regardless of what Baptists would tell you, there is NOTHING in the bible against drinking (though there are admonitions about the excess of it and drunkeness). Jesus Himself quipped "John the Baptist does not drink wine, and they accuse him of being unsual. I do partake, and they accuse me of being a wine sipper". St. Paul told St. Timothy to have some wine to help soothe his stomach. My personal favorite is when people try to claim that all that refers to grape juice (even though Hebrew and Greek have a different word for unfermented grape juice).

[doc_bean]

Baptists don't drink ?

No wonder they tend to be so uptight

[Don Corleone]

Depends on which branch of Baptist, but no, many don't. It falls under the whole category of what I call being "Holier than thou". We are called to imitate Christ. Many folks get confused and figure imitate Christ=imitate preacher, and there are a whole host of religious taboos, simply because the preachers say so. Examples:

-Drinking is wrong. (Clearly, as Jesus drank and created wine, and Jesus never sinned, it cannot be).

-Dancing is wrong. (Somebody forgot to tell David, a "man after God's own heart").

-The only valid English translation of the bible is King James. All others are works by the devil to alter God's message (no kidding!). So, for all you Flemish speakers, and others? Well, believe it or not, this is what many believe: Hebrew was the language of Abraham. Aramaic was the language of Jesus. Greek was the language of St. Paul.... different epochs have times where God speaks in a preferred language. Today's preferred language is King James English (though, it isn't, it was modified three times, so it's actually King George's English, as the last translation is from late 1700s). So, much as Muslims are supposed to read Arabic, to read the Quran in Allah's preferred form, you folks are all supposed to learn English, JUST SO YOU CAN READ THE BIBLE IN GOD'S PREFERRED FORM. No kidding, I know a lot of Baptists and non-denominationals that believe this. Never mind that English, let alone King James' English, as a language, wouldn't exist for close to 1000 years AFTER the last book of the bible was written!

-Etc, etc. Which is funny, because the apostles in the early Church actually DID have some strange ideas of his own. St. Paul put a commandment into 1 Corinthians that women SHOULD ALWAYS wear hats in church, but men NEVER SHOULD. St. Peter went around telling everyone that Gentiles had to convert to Judaism for a while BEFORE they could become Christians. Go figure....

[BDC]

The amount of times I've staggered home utterly wasted... No Texas for me. :(

[solypsist]

im actually surprised this isn't happening in H-E-B, which is the kind of area i would expect to do this sort of thing.

Which if you know the DFW area you would begin to understand why such stupidity is happening.

[Redleg]

im actually surprised this isn't happening in H-E-B, which is the kind of area i would expect to do this sort of thing.

True - but remember parts of Dallas County are still dry. (I live in Garland, which just this year finally voted out a blue law. Grocery stores can now sell Beer and Wine - where before there was absolutely no place to purchase achocal other then a restruant in Garland.)

[Don Corleone]

HEB equals ? For those of us not of the Lone Star Republic, that is...

[BDC]

True - but remember parts of Dallas County are still dry. (I live in Garland, which just this year finally voted out a blue law. Grocery stores can now sell Beer and Wine - where before there was absolutely no place to purchase achocal other then a restruant in Garland.)

Sounds grim...

[Redleg]

HEB equals ? For those of us not of the Lone Star Republic, that is...

The area he is refering to is in south east Texas. There are cities with the initials H- E - B that will come obvious once you center your map on that location.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Outside of Houston

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I was wondering....

I remember a rather popular chain of supermarkets in the Austin area named HEB, but didn't recall any bars therein.

[drone]

I was wondering....

I remember a rather popular chain of supermarkets in the Austin area named HEB, but didn't recall any bars therein.

I was thinking the same thing....

[solypsist]

hmmm..actually i was referring to Hurst, Euless, and Bedford, those little burgs outside of Fort Worth known for all sort of police policies (mostly speed traps) designed to line the coffers of those towns at the expense of citizenry. but your houston call works, too!

The area he is refering to is in south east Texas. There are cities with the initials H- E - B that will come obvious once you center your map on that location.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Outside of Houston

[Redleg]

hmmm..actually i was referring to Hurst, Euless, and Bedford, those little burgs outside of Fort Worth known for all sort of police policies (mostly speed traps) designed to line the coffers of those towns at the expense of citizenry. but your houston call works, too!

Well Yes yours is actually more accurate now that I actually see the cities you are refering to.

Since I work in an area that ships a lot of packages using the mail system, I assumed you were going with the codes for the Houston area.

[Strike For The South]

My Dad works for HEB!111 But anyway Im baptist and we arent very smart Altohugh do you belive the law wil be enforced?

[SomeNick]

Wow!
Too funny.

So in Texas you can go to the pub, get legless, and get a free taxi home care of the local extortive revenue, self serving legislation pushing authorities, which of any charges you could turn around and counter claim in court (as long as you weren't a twit and didn't cause anyone any drunken harm) and get further beer money?

Movin' to USA ! rofl!

[spmetla]

How can a bar even be considered public. Do be guilty of public drunkeness wouldn't you have to be on public property and by that county,state, or federal property? Unless the State of Texas owns the bars they're arresting people in I can't see how this could actually be enforced legally.

[Spetulhu]

How can a bar even be considered public.

It's public in the sense that patrons aren't invited, anyone of the right age can get in. Bouncers could refuse you entry if you're already drunk or too untidy for the place, but the police isn't likely to be either. Hmm, how about asking if you carry a badge?

Not that it matters. I'd assume bars are licensed establishments in Texas too, am I correct? They'd get all kinds of official trouble if they didn't let police enter.

[Catiline]

Stick to the Bishop's Mitre on Holborn. The police aren't allowed in there, there's a law against it. Curiously it's next to all the inns of court. Surely the lawyers didn't cover their own arse....

[Kralizec]

-The only valid English translation of the bible is King James. All others are works by the devil to alter God's message (no kidding!).

It's true, look here

So, for all you Flemish speakers, and others?

Flemish is not a language, it's a dialect of the Dutch language. Don't believe whatever those Belgian loonies may have told you

DC: I read about some crazy 19th century ideas regarding America's supposed 'manifest destiny' wich were common mainly among southern baptists. That in those days quite a lot believed that the USA literally was the next Israel, and that the native Indians basicly were the new Kaanites- meant to be driven out to make place for Gods' chosen people. Would you say that such beliefs are still common where you live?

[Redleg]

If anyone is interested there was a decent write-up on what is going on with this law in the Dallas Morning News today.

A state legislator is going to look into repealling this law. And the TABC actually explained what is going on. One of the points that has not been covered in the Media is that the bar owners and bartenders are getting more of the pressure from the TABC to insure that follow the guidelines of the laws that govern the sell of achocal in the State.

Interesting article - but its probably in the subscribe section on the internet.

[KukriKhan]

It's all about liability for the consequences of drunkeness. Looks like Irving, TX wants to drop its compliance with 'Dram Shop Theory' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_shop_rule
and go past the bar owners/bartenders, and straight to the alcohol consumers for liability prevention enforcement.

For most of my life, Texas didn't even an 'open-container' law on its books. That changed in 2001 http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/ne...003/050103.php

Life's getting harder on smokers and drinkers.

[Kraxis]

That's crazy... to both accounts as well as what Don presented.

@Don.
Strange... how do they act when they learn that Spanish is in fact the most spoken language in christianity? I mean that would bury their entire point. I guess we should all begin to learn it so we can read the oldest Spanish bible around.

Btw, my GF (former Jehova's Witness) keeps mentioning a passage where Jesus says something like this:
"Drink until you puke."
Can't get much more clear than that.

[Strike For The South]

Some of yall should actually ask a baptist these questions eh? Anyway my preacher drinks and dances and we use the King James bible but people bring there own and ya there are some insane people but they give us flavor.

[Don Corleone]

I feel bad here, because I've painted with a pretty broad brush. One thing you should all understand is that saying "Baptist", or even "Southern Baptist", covers a LOT of ground. They do tend to be stricter than most other denominations (though, in their own way, Catholics give them a run for their
money). But, as SFTS points out, there are Baptists that drink, Baptists that dance, and... perish the thought, Baptists that read the New Interational Translation of the bible.

When you hear somebody saying that drinking and dancing are outlawed in the bible, and that the KJV is the only valid translation, odds are good that they are Baptist, but they could come from somewhere else (I think technically speaking, Methodists ban drinking, but most do).

Now, that being said, the KJV translation relies on the Byzantine scrolls known at the time of the translations (1600-1780ish). Somewhere in the 19th century, new scrolls, predating the prior collection of New Testament works were found. Here is the overriding concern.... prior to their being found, people had already declared in the infallibility of God's word, as it was known. So, for them to incorporate new sources and adapt their translations would mean the old translations were not 100% accurate. How could God have allowed that for ~200 years? (Actually ~500, as the first vernacular English translation was done in the 1300s).

So, by saying you are KJV only, you are, in a way, declaring that God has maintained the infallibility of His word throughout time. No further translations are required.

By saying you are NIV (or NRSV or others), you are allowing that men didn't always copy the scrolls right, and it is possible to improve upon God's holy word, because we didn't always maintain it properly through the years.

I'm not quite certain what drives the need for the language of KJV English, as the New King James uses the same scrolls, it just translates them into modern English, and it appears to be one of those compromises that satisfied nobody as very few people use this translation.

Now, I'm going to shut up. I managed to divert Soly's thread. I managed to smear Baptists in general, SFTS in particular. None of which was my intent. So, with an apology to Soly and to SFTS, and to Baptists worldwide, I'm shuttin up. If folks are interested in Protestant theology in America, perhaps we should start another thread.

Anyway, Soly and Redleg have an excellent point about raising revenue... This is also why states have continued to reduce their DUI limits. They put a 0.10 limit in back in the 80's, and it was so wildly successful, it brought in enough cash to get the state coffers dependent on it. Eventually, people learned and quit drinking to excess then trying to drive home. Not enough money was being generated anymore, so the legislatures voted to lower the limits to catch new offenders. Many states have limits so low (.05, or even .03). that even mouthwash or cough syrup will get you.