the death of Italian football....

[ShadesWolf]

What a difference a week makes...

Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.
AC Milan will stay in Serie A but will lose 15 points and will be kicked out of the Champions League.

Juventus were also stripped of their last two titles and had 30 points deducted meaning that they are almost certain to stay down for two seasons.

Lazio were penalised seven points while Fiorentina suffered a 12 point penalty.

The clubs will have three days to appeal to the Federal Court.

The FIGC (Italian football's governing body) must hand Uefa the lists of teams that will be involved in European competitions by 25 July, with Juventus and AC Milan out of the Champions League and Lazio and Fiorentina thrown out of the Uefa Cup.

Those directly involved with the scandal were also penalised, with former Juventus general manager Luciano Moggi suspended from all football for five years and Adriano Galliani, who was AC Milan vice-president, suspended for one year.

The tribunal in Rome investigated charges that the clubs, their management, football officials and referees tried to influence the outcome of matches by interfering with the appointment of officials.

In May, transcripts were published of telephone conversations between Moggi and Italian Football Association officials, discussing refereeing appointments in the 2004-05 season.

FIGC prosecutor Stefano Palazzi also charged 26 individuals for sporting fraud and violating fairness and probity.

All four clubs implicated denied the accusations.

Thirteen of Italy's World Cup-winning squad play for the clubs involved, with five at Juventus, who also number Patrick Vieira, Lilian Thuram, David Trezeguet, Pavel Nedved and Zlatan Ibrahimovic in their ranks.

[Kralizec]

I'd say they got off pretty easily. They could just as well have been demoted to serie C.

[ShadesWolf]

It will all depend on what happens next......

If we see a mass movement of players, then they will have a problem .
If they can hold onto the players then a few years off and they will be back.

Just think, Juventus, need to win first ten games to get back to nil points, no champion league football, hence no big money.

If they want promotion, they will almost need to win all the other 28 games to get 84 points. Can you see a team winning 38 games in a season ?


1. 42 24 9 9 61 39 81 - Atalantachmp
2. 42 22 12 8 67 42 78 - Catania
3. 42 21 13 8 51 31 76 - Torino
4. 42 18 15 9 46 35 69 - Mantova
5. 42 17 16 9 59 41 67 - Modena
6. 42 18 12 12 66 54 66 - Cesena
7. 42 17 15 10 45 34 66 - Arezzo

[Byzantine Prince]

Most of the players have at least 3 year contracts, but considering the 2 seasons waiting period, there could be problems with player movement indeed.

I think overall this is good for Italian soccer. Match fixing ruins the game far more than just not having the teams with the good player in serie A.

The loyal fans will stay with the teams anyways. We could see a resurgence in Serie B broadcasts.

If we see a mass movement of players, then they will have a problem .
If they can hold onto the players then a few years off and they will be back.

Just think, Juventus, need to win first ten games to get back to nil points, no champion league football, hence no big money.

If they want promotion, they will almost need to win all the other 28 games to get 84 points. Can you see a team winning 38 games in a season ?

[drone]

I was under the impression that at least Juve was going down to C. They got off easy.

During the WC, announcers over here were talking about players contracts, apparently most of the stars have out-clauses if the team gets relegated. If this is true, I don't think these teams will be able to keep their really good players.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Whoopti doo, they should have stayed in the same place...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well, I would like to say just how sorry I feel for all Italian football fans and players but we all know that would be a lie so sod off to the second division and if I ever see any of you again it will be a billion years too soon.

[Strike For The South]

ya stupid Italians

[Mount Suribachi]

I was under the impression that at least Juve was going down to C. They got off easy.

I think the 30 point deduction is a comprimise between relegation to Serie C and just dropping them down to Serie B. They're almost certain to stay down for at least 2 seasons now. I know Juve were hoping loan out a lot of their players for 1 season, in the hope that they would get them back after an immediate promotion back to Serie A.

BTW, does anyone know what Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina did? I've heard Juve's long list of crimes detailed on the radio (and its a long and shocking list), but I've never really found out what the other 3 are meant to have done.

[Dutch_guy]

During the WC, announcers over here were talking about players contracts, apparently most of the stars have out-clauses if the team gets relegated. If this is true, I don't think these teams will be able to keep their really good players.

Well I've heard at least some players wished to stay, decided to stay loyal to the team/club. Del Piero comes to mind as someone who said that.

But even if all the players stay with Juve, which won't happen, they'll be very hard put to get back into the serie A in just one year. Wait, it's not a hard job, it's impossible.

In comparison to Juve, Milan got off quite easy, 15 points is 5 wins, and getting kicked out of the CL isn't that hard a punishment for a rich club like Milan...

[KrooK]

In my opinion JUve will be back in serie a very soon. They are rich, powerful club, much stronger than others in serie b. They simply got 30 really good players into team and it's possible for them to win 38 games into season.
Anyway in this season they achieved over 70 points playing into higher class.
If they cheated - they got what they want. If they didn't cheat, they can gain similar number into serie B.

[Dutch_guy]

.
If they cheated - they got what they want. If they didn't cheat, they can gain similar number into serie B.

Well certainly not what they wanted, I take it you mean they got what they deserved ?

And yes indeed it is possible for Juve to get back to the serie A, just not likely, especially since we don't know which players 'll decide to stay - that will determine how they'll do coming season.

[Slyspy]

They still have the right to appeal, which they will no doubt try. Knowing football this could still all come to nought.

[King Ragnar]

Hopefully this means more international stars for the Premiership clubs

[DukeofSerbia]

AC Milan stayed in Serie A. NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

That just can't be true. If anyone deserved to go in Serie B then is Milan with Juventus. Berlusconi and AC Milan....

[whyidie]

Don't worry. I bought AC Milan from Berlusconi in my Winning Eleven league. While we were regulated for the Master League we are now back up in the 1st division. Hooray for life imitating game!

[LeftEyeNine]

Well a true disaster indeed. However this is something that Turkish Football Federation would never feel brave enough to put such rocking charges on biggest clubs of Turkey. If something really happened, then my congrats go to Italian Football Federation for their courage and determination of will for justice. They may have decided for a softer sentence especially not to spoil the victory days of winning the World Cup. But they did. This is quite admirable.

-30 points is just a fatality move for any club when starting a season but I believe in Dider Deschamps' ability. He is a solid French who was remembered for his service in Juve shirt for years, and I believe we'll be watching a heroic fightback and uprise of Juve back to Serie A under his commandment.

Oh and I think Fiorentina is cursed, damned and big-bad-voodoo'ed. Is there any other team with such recent past of the Viola's?

P.S. Cannavaro and Thuram are rumoured with links to Fenerbahçe, but I already know its difficulty after all those Titans cahsing them.

[JAG]

What I think is most interesting is whether AC Milan got off lighter because of Berlesconi....

Anyway, Seria A been going down the pan for a while now.

[Mount Suribachi]

P.S. Cannavaro and Thuram are rumoured with links to Fenerbahçe, but I already know its difficulty after all those Titans cahsing them.

Thuram, maybe, but Cannavaro, no way. All the talk is that he's a lock to go to Real Madrid, although there are whispers that Chelsea are interested.

With most of the big name players that will be up for grabs, the question is can they afford their wages? There are only a handful of teams that can pay the same big wages as Juve & Milan - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Man Utd. Man Utd have an enormous debt round their necks (thankyou Malcolm Glazer), even Chelsea aren't a bottomless pit of money. Real & Barca can only compete because Spains accounting laws allow them to be £200M in debt....

Overall, what this glut of players and shortage of buyers onto the market may do is drive down transfer fees & wages for the next year or 2. Man Utd won't get very much for Van Nistelrooy with the likes of Trezuguet & Ibrahimovic on the market.

[The Black Ship]

When this is all played out, and if any individuals involved are found guilty...should FIFA do anything about Italy's WC? I mean if it's proven that cheaters were on the Italian WC squad how can you allow the team's record to stand?

Are player's different than teams whem it comes to match-fixing?

[Ronin]

When this is all played out, and if any individuals involved are found guilty...should FIFA do anything about Italy's WC? I mean if it's proven that cheaters were on the Italian WC squad how can you allow the team's record to stand?

Are player's different than teams whem it comes to match-fixing?

nothing was proven regarding the involvement of players on this....

[Mount Suribachi]

Yeah, its all to do with the actions of the management of the clubs involved - arranging that certain refs did their games, that they booked opposition players to make sure they were suspended when they played Juve.

The only incriminated players are opposition players. I forget the team, but towards the end of last season Juve were 3-0 up against them after 10 minutes. SEVEN of that teams players were on the books of the agency run by the Juve presidents son......

What I think is most interesting is whether AC Milan got off lighter because of Berlesconi....

Whilst one is always prone to suspect dodgy dealings where he is involved, according to an Italian based journalist on the radio this afternoon, going by the phone taps, Milan were genuinely the club with the least to answer for.

[Bar Kochba]

Thuram, maybe,
Overall, what this glut of players and shortage of buyers onto the market may do is drive down transfer fees & wages for the next year or 2. Man Utd won't get very much for Van Nistelrooy with the likes of Trezuguet & Ibrahimovic on the market.

Awwww poor footballers instead of 50k a week they will have to settle for 25k i hope they dont starve

[Papewaio]

Are the footballers contracts still binding?

Surely a canny lawyer could argue that the demotion to a lower league will unjustly hurt the earning capacity of the footballers due to loss of advertising appeals and other earning loses. And that this loss of income is due to illegal actions of the club.

So could they get the contracts revoked because of the clubs illegal actions and the injuries these cause to the players ability to earn?

[Mount Suribachi]

Depends. A lot of players have a relegation release clause - but not usually at big clubs like Juventus. A lot of clubs also insert clauses into their players contracts that their wages go down if the club gets relegated. But again, not normally at clubs like Juventus.

Most of the players will be on their way out at bargain basement prices. The likes of Juve rely on Champions League money to pay the huge salaries, and they are at least 3 seasons away from playing in the CL again.

[DukeofSerbia]

Are the footballers contracts still binding?

Surely a canny lawyer could argue that the demotion to a lower league will unjustly hurt the earning capacity of the footballers due to loss of advertising appeals and other earning loses. And that this loss of income is due to illegal actions of the club.

So could they get the contracts revoked because of the clubs illegal actions and the injuries these cause to the players ability to earn?

Contracts are still legal. Serie B is proffesional league in Italy. But if Juventus (or anybody else) relegated in Serie C, all contracts would became instantly null as Serie C in Italy is amateurish league.

[stalin]

Thank god we won't have to see another all-italian CL final this year. Yawn....

[Rodion Romanovich]

I don't think the actions towards some Italian bribing teams is the death of Italian football as a sport. The fact that almost none of the people who watched the football noticed that the games were bribed pretty much proves the point. If the watchers don't see the difference it doesn't matter at all for the game, then what does it matter if they're bribed? Apart from legal reasons such as preventing people from taking advantage of knowing the results in advance when making large sum bets etc., I don't see any reason people should be dissatisfied. If they can't even spot the difference between bribes and no bribes, why would they see difference between the previous top series of the league and the new one, where some teams have been moved down?