Burn, baby burn

[Don Corleone]

(Sorry, my hyperlink buttons aren't )
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...WS01/608220378
I know this might need a little background for our non-American orgahs. But a regularly occurring political fight that happens here in the USA is the whole flag burning issue.

Since we don't have a constitutional monarchy, with a person acting as the symbol of the country, we imbue the flag with more pride and sentiment then most nations. Note, this isn't a requirement, it's just the way things have developed over here.

Well, the love of the flag runs right into first ammendment rights. Do you have the right to completely disrespect your country's symbol? It might seem a bit funny to you folks, but imagine somebody sptting in Q-Lizzie's face. Yes, many Americans view it an appropriate parallel (though I don't).

So, a social studies teacher (civics, history, etc) was trying to teach his class about free speech and burned two flags. Boom, he was removed from his position. Personally, I think he had every right to do this. His point wasn't to encourage his students to burn the flag, it was to demonstrate the bounds of free spech. I agree that teachers shouldn't be imparting their own personal political philosophies, especially extreme ones, on their students. But students do have a right to learn basic tenets of our Constitution.

Let the blood flow....

[Keba]

Feh, I'm a Euro ... don't really care about flags over here, partly because it has been used as a political statement for centuries so much that we've kinda gotten used to it.

There is little offense in burning a flag, it can be a statement, or it can be done to properly dispose of one, but it's shouldn't be a great deal.

What you Amercians see in a colorful piece of cloth is beyond me.

[drone]

I can see removing the teacher for safety reasons, but not for political outrage. Whenever I see flag-burning footage from the Middle East or some other US-hating region, I always think, "You silly people, we can do that here as well. Is that all you've got? Oh, and try not to set yourself on fire." It trivializes the act. And the fact that China makes the majority of US flags reduces the outrage even more.

Regarding an amendment against flag burning, constitutional amendments should always limit what the government can do, not limit what the people can do.

[Ronin]

errr....isn´t the flag just a symbol that represents the freedom to....burn the flag if you want to?

just a crazy idea I had....

[AntiochusIII]

China makes the majority of US flags reduces the outrage even more..

...

...honestly?

How very rude of us, burning things that Chinese sweatshop-workers ruined their very lives slaving for. How very consumer-oriented, how very careless, how ignorant, how selfish. That, sir, is one heartless teacher to burn the precious flags! Think of the children of the Chinaman, how his children toil, how his children work, for you to burn your freedom away!

[/Dramatics]

[KrooK]

He burned his national flag. OMG
In Poland it's a serious crime.
National flag - i repeat National not coutry - represent all nation and it's osmething that unite people into nation.

[Keba]

He burned his national flag. OMG
In Poland it's a serious crime.
National flag - i repeat National not coutry - represent all nation and it's osmething that unite people into nation.

Hate to point it out here, chap, but the US is a state, not a nation, their national identity amounts to we live here, and we like our way of life. They are not a nation, Poland is a nation, France is a nation ... the US, Canada, Australia and others are not ... they are states.

And burning a flag always sends a strong message, and should not be a crime ... after all, one has the freedom to voice his displeasure over the way things are going, and when things are bad enough, then you send a particularly strong message, like burning a flag.

[Xiahou]

Hate to point it out here, chap, but the US is a state, not a nation, their national identity amounts to we live here, and we like our way of life. They are not a nation, Poland is a nation, France is a nation ... the US, Canada, Australia and others are not ... they are states.

You dont spend much time here do you?

So, a social studies teacher (civics, history, etc) was trying to teach his class about free speech and burned two flags. Boom, he was removed from his position. Personally, I think he had every right to do this. His point wasn't to encourage his students to burn the flag, it was to demonstrate the bounds of free spech. I agree that teachers shouldn't be imparting their own personal political philosophies, especially extreme ones, on their students. But students do have a right to learn basic tenets of our Constitution.

Well Don, just because someone is allowed to do something which completely offensive to most Americans doesnt mean they should do it in a classroom. And clearly many students and even more parents were very offended by the act. Imagine all the unsavory things a teacher could do in a classroom that are "technically" legal, but would be very inappropriate in a classroom setting.

[Redleg]

Hate to point it out here, chap, but the US is a state, not a nation, their national identity amounts to we live here, and we like our way of life. They are not a nation, Poland is a nation, France is a nation ... the US, Canada, Australia and others are not ... they are states.

Hate to point it out to you here chap - but your incorrect. LOL.... You might want to look at the definition of state, nation, and nation state. You might just learn a thing or two.

Here is some help from Webster's

Main Entry: na·tion
Pronunciation: 'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English nacioun, from Anglo-French naciun, from Latin nation-, natio birth, race, nation, from nasci to be born; akin to Latin gignere to beget -- more at KIN
1 a (1) : NATIONALITY 5a (2) : a politically organized nationality (3) : a non-Jewish nationality <why do the nations conspire -- Psalms 2:1 (Revised Standard Version)> b : a community of people composed of one or more nationalities and possessing a more or less defined territory and government c : a territorial division containing a body of people of one or more nationalities and usually characterized by relatively large size and independent status
2 archaic : GROUP, AGGREGATION
3 : a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians)

When one attempts to define nation the way you have attempt, they find themselve looking at the wrong side of a generalization. Care to guess how many ethnic groupings are in the nation of France? Or how about the number of ethnic people in the Nation of Italy?

And burning a flag always sends a strong message, and should not be a crime ... after all, one has the freedom to voice his displeasure over the way things are going, and when things are bad enough, then you send a particularly strong message, like burning a flag.

Yes indeed - Freedom of Speech does allow for the burning of the national flag.

[drone]

...

...honestly?

How very rude of us, burning things that Chinese sweatshop-workers ruined their very lives slaving for. How very consumer-oriented, how very careless, how ignorant, how selfish. That, sir, is one heartless teacher to burn the precious flags! Think of the children of the Chinaman, how his children toil, how his children work, for you to burn your freedom away!

[/Dramatics]

Pretty sure. I saw some news article not too long after 9/11. Everybody in the country was buying up US flags, and the supply was getting low. The Chinese flag factory was running 3 shifts and still couldn't meet demand. This was after the EP-3 crisis, but the factory workers seemed pretty happy about the business we were throwing their way. Doesn't surprise me, wouldn't be very cost effective to make them here.

[yesdachi]

As long as it was included in his class syllabus that was approved by the school board and handed out for all parents to be aware of.

Our fricking kids don’t know how to find Iraq on a map or to name the Supreme Court justices but it is more important for this teacher to burn a flag. If it were up to me I would draw a circle on the chalk board and make him stay there with his nose in it until he agreed to get back to work.

Grumble idiot teachers grumble tax dollars at work grumble

[doc_bean]

Our fricking kids don’t know how to find Iraq on a map or to name the Supreme Court justices but it is more important for this teacher to burn a flag.

You make a very valid point here (although it might not have been what you meant): freedom of speech is only worthwhile if you know what you're talking about. Freedom of speech is closely tied with the rights of the free press and the resulting flow of information. Freedom of speech has unfortunately been degraded to fake child pornography, flag burnings, KKK meetings and whatnot. It would probably be better to show these kids WHY freedom of speech is important, not showing what cool stuff you can get away with.

Still, if he gets kicked out for burning a flag, what is left of that free speech ? Of course, being kicked out for burning stuff in a class would make sense...

[Bartix]

I think i am not understanding importance of flag to US people.
But teacher did some thing to provoke and get pupils thinking, and it works!!!


May be it was too "bad taste" considering sensibility, may be teacher thinking too much "i am like really special person like teacher in Dead Poet Society or some other movie and changing lives forever".