Bioshock non-gameplay discussion

[Kekvit Irae]

Are we talking about Bioshock screenshots (as is the whole original intent of this thread) or copy protections?
I'd like it if people would stay on topic and make a new thread if they want to discuss Securom or whatever other copy protections a game might have instead of derailing a potentially great thread.

Also, be forewarned, froggie and I do not like blatant spoilers. If you want to continue the thread as a screenshot or discussion thread, please be advised to use the spoiler tags for things that might spoil the plot for those who have yet to play.

[Decker]

Are we talking about Bioshock screenshots (as is the whole original intent of this thread) or copy protections?
I'd like it if people would stay on topic and make a new thread if they want to discuss Securom or whatever other copy protections a game might have instead of derailing a potentially great thread.

Also, be forewarned, froggie and I do not like blatant spoilers. If you want to continue the thread as a screenshot or discussion thread, please be advised to use the spoiler tags for things that might spoil the plot for those who have yet to play.

I think we should just turn it into the Official Bioshock Thread or something like that since the game's already out.

[Kekvit Irae]

The choice is really up to Fragony to change the thread, since he was the one who started it. I have no objections, either way, to changing the thread or starting a new one.

[Decker]

The choice is really up to Fragony to change the thread, since he was the one who started it. I have no objections, either way, to changing the thread or starting a new one.

Alright then

[frogbeastegg]

I am splitting Bioshock discussion into two threads from this point onwards.

All gameplay discussion will go into the Bioshock gameplay thread.

All other Bioshock discussion, including discussion of the CP, belong in the Bioshock non-gameplay topic, i.e. this one.

All spoilers must be concealed by spoiler tags regardless of which thread you post in.

I'm doing this so people can talk about the game without it getting lost in other concerns, and so people wanting to talk about the copy protection etc can do so without it getting lost in game talk. Discussion of SecuROM will be permitted in the correct topic until and unless it heads into illegal areas

Please take the time to put your posts in the correct topic! Moving individual posts is a pain and a half, and having discussion pinwheeling across two threads defeats the whole point of having two threads. If people won't make the minescule effort then we'll have to merge the two topics, and then no one will be happy.

:Hands Fragony and Out a ticket each: I'm requisitioning your threads for the good of the org. This ticket enables you to claim a thread of equal value from the front desk. Thanks for your cooperation

[doc_bean]

Glad i read this thread while DLing the demo, cancelled the DL.

Bioshock looks like a nice game, but I'll live without it. I avoided HL2 because of the online activation thing and i'll avoid this game too.

I've already reinstalled civ4 more than five times on different computers, and that game is two years old or so. I ain't buying for the right to play a game, I'll only pay to own it.

Lemur, good luck with fighting the man !

[Lemur]

No response as yet to any of my inquiries; I imagine they're overwhelmed with angry users. I'll give it a little time before I launch into more emails.

[Bob the Insane]

I ain't buying for the right to play a game, I'll only pay to own it.

Interesting statement...

From a contractual perspective the only thing you own is a license to use the software. There is no transfer of intellectual property rights when you purchase a game. Technically you do not own any software you did not write yourself or commision to be written for you...

Not Windows, not MS Office, not IE, not your games, none of it owned by you. You own license(s) to use it and the copies of the media containing it.

Is this not the case?

If it is they why do we get so upset when companies make an effort to enforce this aggreement that we have entered into?

Is it because the aggreement is not properly defined at time of purchase? Because it is inherently "wrong"?

If it only when they are overly streniously implimented? Is it because the limited number of installs implies a distinct lifespan for the software becuase lets face it, we are going to upgrade machines...

[Lemur]

Well, one simple line is crossed with online activation: My license is worthless if their server licensing goes down, if they stop paying for the server, if they go insane, or if they go out of business.

I can stick Fallout into my PC and play it, even though Black Isle and Interplay are dead and gone. If every game company begins this activation nonsense, PC gaming will lose its entire back catalog over time.

I know, I know, someone from the BioShock team is now claiming that they will release a patch down the road that removes the activation. I guess we had all better download and archive that patch as soon as it comes out, 'cause the game will not install properly without it in 2010.

Bob the Insane, let me come back at you with a different example. When I buy a book, I am not buying the full intellectual rights to it. A copy of Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants does not give me the right to make a movie from that book. On the other hand, Bantam or Dell Ray or whatever publisher does not gain the right to inspect my home, check my bookshelf, and lock my front door if it detects a photocopier.

This is an established customer/producer relationship, and I will oppose publishers' attempts to expand their rights at the expense of yours and mine. Everybody can make money, everybody can enjoy the work, but fer cryin' out loud, don't treat your customers like criminals.

[doc_bean]

Interesting statement...

From a contractual perspective the only thing you own is a license to use the software. There is no transfer of intellectual property rights when you purchase a game. Technically you do not own any software you did not write yourself or commision to be written for you...

If you buy a book you can read it as many times as you want, yet you don't own the IP either. Same thing for me.

Not Windows, not MS Office, not IE, not your games, none of it owned by you. You own license(s) to use it and the copies of the media containing it.

Sure, I however expect a decent user license, not the sort of crap they try to push onto us these days.

Is this not the case?

If it is they why do we get so upset when companies make an effort to enforce this aggreement that we have entered into?

Is it because the aggreement is not properly defined at time of purchase? Because it is inherently "wrong"?

It's pretty much the same discussion as with the music industry and how they claim owning something on cd doesn't mean you have the right to own it on mp3. You buy the cd for the music, you don't own it in the IP way and you shouldn't, but you payed money to be able to listen to the music (or the recording), however you prefer. This tends to be the way the consumer views the deal.

If it only when they are overly streniously implimented? Is it because the limited number of installs implies a distinct lifespan for the software becuase lets face it, we are going to upgrade machines...

I think we need a standard for 'proper use' of software, which protects consumers against this sort of thing.

EDIT: well, Lemur said it better than me.

[Bob the Insane]

All fair points, I was really trying to play devils advocate there...

I think we accept that we do not own the rights to the game, but we do expect, from previous experience, that said license has no lifespan and is good for as long as the physical media holds out, or longer if the publisher is feeling generous...

Are these new measures an over-reaction to digital rights issues and the speed of change in the digital media technology...

[Slyspy]

Of course the fact that you must hand over your cash before you even see the license information (ie the contract) is interesting.

[TinCow]

Having not read this thread in some time, I was very surprised yesterday when AVG popped up with a virus warning about Bioshock. I checked the net and quickly found that it was a false positive and solved the situation by temporarily turning off Resident Shield. However, in the process I found out about the limit of 5 installations.

I am absolutely outraged.

I cannot possibly emphasize that enough. My wife and I are both gamers and we both installed Bioshock immediately. That means we now have a grand total of 3 installations left. We like installing game mods regularly, which means frequent re-installations. I also have a particular habit of installing very old games many years after I first purchased them. This all means one thing: I am guaranteed to burn through my 5 installations very, very quickly. This is unbelievable. Nowhere on the box does it indicate that the number of installations is limited. You are essentially conned into renting a game for a short period of time.

Bioshock is a great game. I am enjoying it more than I have enjoyed a FPS in several years. However, I will never buy a Irrational Games title ever again. That is a shame, since they were formerly on my 'must buy no matter what' list.

[frogbeastegg]

I will never buy a Irrational Games title ever again

Noooo! Don't say that - the publisher make the decisions about copy protection, not the developers! Irrational are behind some great games - games which usually don't sell without their being blamed for a decision which wasn't in their hands to begin with.

Throw stones at 2K. They made the decision.

Er, also, you do know that if you uninstall the game you get that activation back? So if you uninstall it from your wife's computer you will then have 4 installs again. The problem arrises if you do not uninstall the game correctly, e.g. hard drive failure, windows registry crash.

:hate for online activation:

I agree. I loathe it. I detest it. I like to know my games will work when I install them and continue to work for years; online activation introduces many potential reasons that they will not do so.


Playing devil's advocate a moment, it's interesting to see that Bioshock has rocketed to number 1 in the UK charts and, according to people who've looked, the PC version hasn't yet been cracked. Nasty as the copy protection is for legitimate users, it does appear to be working. It's the first few weeks where most of the sales are made.

[TinCow]

Noooo! Don't say that - the publisher make the decisions about copy protection, not the developers! Irrational are behind some great games - games which usually don't sell without their being blamed for a decision which wasn't in their hands to begin with.

Throw stones at 2K. They made the decision.

Er, also, you do know that if you uninstall the game you get that activation back? So if you uninstall it from your wife's computer you will then have 4 installs again. The problem arrises if you do not uninstall the game correctly, e.g. hard drive failure, windows registry crash.

Well, that is somewhat better, but that must mean that the game updates the authorization server when it is uninstalled, something that also displeases me. If you are correct, then I will rework my statement into: I will never buy any game that uses this form of copyright protection, no matter who the developer is. With luck, Irrational will see the error of their ways and either part company with 2K or convince them never to pull this kind of stunt again. If not, I suppose I will no longer be a customer.

[drone]

Noooo! Don't say that - the publisher make the decisions about copy protection, not the developers! Irrational are behind some great games - games which usually don't sell without their being blamed for a decision which wasn't in their hands to begin with.

Throw stones at 2K. They made the decision.

Irrational Games no longer exists, they are now 2K Boston/2K Australia (bought by TakeTwo in Jan 2006), and thus the developer and publisher are the same company. From what I've read on the forum and seen in interviews with Ken, the use of SecuRom and activation limits were decisions made by them. They may have been pressured by the parent company, maybe not. They cannot be completely blameless here, especially since the activation servers were under their control.

Er, also, you do know that if you uninstall the game you get that activation back? So if you uninstall it from your wife's computer you will then have 4 installs again. The problem arrises if you do not uninstall the game correctly, e.g. hard drive failure, windows registry crash.

Actually, you don't. That was the idea, but someone messed up and it doesn't work. They are currently developing a key revoke tool that you will need to run before uninstalling. If you have a disk crash, you are out of luck. One more reason why activations are just a bad idea. Check the SecuRom/activation entry here:
http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html
So you have to uninstall BioShock before reinstalling Windows on your machine, that's not bad, right? If all games go to something like this, you are going to be spending hours uninstalling games and revoking keys before you can even get around to dealing with the OS install. Completely unacceptable, and a terrible precedent to set for future games. If they truly want to kill off PC gaming, this is a good first step.

Playing devil's advocate a moment, it's interesting to see that Bioshock has rocketed to number 1 in the UK charts and, according to people who've looked, the PC version hasn't yet been cracked. Nasty as the copy protection is for legitimate users, it does appear to be working. It's the first few weeks where most of the sales are made.

The game probably would have been #1 anyway. It's been one of the most anticipated games for the past year, and there is nothing else out right now that could compete. I agree, it hasn't been cracked yet, but at what cost?

These are the problems so far, as I understand them. Correct me if I don't have everything right:

• Activation in general. Now set for 5 installs on 5 separate machines. No key revoke mechanism that works yet. Who knows how you will reinstall the game in the distant future.
• Running with separate user accounts on the same machine uses a key for each user that tries to run the game.
• Running with different OSes (Vista/XP) on the same machine uses a key for each.
• SecuRom. Not as malicious as people are hyping. The keys are left behind, as other games also using SecuRom for protection (STALKER, NWN2) but with no activation. The demo did not actually install SecuRom, but it was present.
• SecuRom. Seems to blacklist official Microsoft programs (Process Explorer mainly, rumors of others), will not start the game or complete the install if PE has been run since PC powerup. Also seems to conflict with AVG anti-virus, will not run with protection turned on. Seems to have problems with some DVD writers as well, won't install properly (didn't M2TW have the same issue?)
• IT staff for the activation servers were woefully unprepared for the launch, servers in both the US and Oz failed. The US one was down for hours (6?), since no one was around to monitor it.
• Installations that failed due to these problems seem to use keys without actually getting the game working.
• The tech support numbers printed on the box for the North American launch were flipped. The US number was actually the Canadian number, the Canadian number was actually the US number. Hilarity ensues, eh?
• Neither 2K or SecuRom wanted responsibility for installation issues, and originally passed the buck, endearing both with the paying customers. This has been resolved.

All this adds up to a lot of angry customers, ticked off fans, and bad press. To their credit, Ken has admitted they screwed up royally, and they are working to fix the problems. But why they decided to try a brand new (and fairly radical) CP scheme for a game this size is beyond my comprehension. The only way they could have screwed up the release any more would have been to have the goatse pic show up in the title screen. Could you imagine how much praise and adulation they would have gotten if they had just stuck with a DVD key or disk check? It's such a shame, this game was something I've wanted since last summer. I'll be waiting for the "Gold" edition, or whatever release they put out without the activation limit. Until then, I'll be keeping my $50. I don't rent games.

[frogbeastegg]

Irrational Games no longer exists, they are now 2K Boston/2K Australia

My mistake. I don't follow developers or publishers, as a rule. I thought they were still a standard studio, and thus at their publisher's mercy.

If you have a disk crash, you are out of luck.

I know. I did say.

Check the SecuRom/activation entry here:
http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html

Lovely. According to the things I had read the forthcoming tool was to remove the SecuROM leftovers after the game/demo was removed. The activations were reported as working correctly, and increased to give more slack. One might suppose that sometimes you do get your activation back, others not.

So you have to uninstall BioShock before reinstalling Windows on your machine, that's not bad, right?

No, it's bad. Like I said.

In the 12 or so years since I got my first PC I’ve had 3 failed hard drives, 1 failed motherboard, 1 entire PC melted by a power surge (through a surge protector!), and 1 processor burn itself out because the idiot who installed it forgot to put a fan on. I back up my important files to 5 seperate locations! The last thing I want is software which can’t be smoothly reinstalled after each unexpected disaster. I don't like XP needing to activate itself online, let alone a game.

I didn't get much choice about whether to buy into limited activations, online activation and SecuROM. My copy was opened and installing when this news appeared on a site I read; by that point I couldn't take the game back if I wanted to. I would not describe myself as thrilled. I've had the AGV problems too, wasted the best part of an hour chasing imaginary trojans on my PC and worrying about the potential infection of my writing manuscripts. No, definitely not thrilled. This is one of very, very few PC games I've brought one release day. I picked up the retail version because I won’t use Steam, and lo and behold I get the very same online intrusion I was aiming to avoid. Not thrilled one bit.

I'm not under any false impression that this is somehow a Good Thing(TM). It isn't.

The game probably would have been #1 anyway.

Until the last few weeks before release I did not get the impression Bioshock was especially anticipated amongst the general gaming public; if it had been I wouldn’t have been so easily able to studiously ignore it until it was finished.

The pro-copy protection argument always runs that the more popular a game the more it will be pirated. Which makes sense. Therefore if it was destined to be a number 1 hit it needs the protection more.

One may wonder how many sales end up being lost to people who refuse to buy the game because of the intrusive copy protection, and how this balances against potential sales lost to piracy. How many potential pirates will actually buy the game anyway, instead of waiting a bit longer for the cracked version?

[drone]

So you have to uninstall BioShock before reinstalling Windows on your machine, that's not bad, right?

No, it's bad. Like I said.

Sorry, I was being a little sarcastic with that line. Should have put a smilie in there. Actually, looking back at that whole paragraph, I could have done better. That could possibly be the longest post I've ever made here, and it shows.
Imagine having to uninstall 20 games before reformatting a drive or reinstalling XP. Completely unacceptable. If this is the future, I may as well run Ubuntu and buy a Wii.

One thing I didn't put in you mentioned.

I didn't get much choice about whether to buy into limited activations, online activation and SecuROM. My copy was opened and installing when this news appeared on a site I read; by that point I couldn't take the game back if I wanted to. I would not describe myself as thrilled.

They didn't put anything about limited activations on the box or in the press. I don't even think it's in the EULA. "Online activation required" was about it.

I'm in the software business. I pay for my games, I hate software pirates, and I understand the corporate thinking behind decisions like this. But there is a point of diminishing returns. How much does 2K have to pay to maintain the activation servers? How much do they have to pay SecuRom to use their software? How much money do they have to pay their tech support to handle the deluge of calls from a launch fiasco? Does that make up for the potential losses to pirates (remembering that each pirated copy != a lost sale), bad press, and outraged geeks? I'd love to see the actuarial analysis on that.

[Zenicetus]

I'm in the software business. I pay for my games, I hate software pirates, and I understand the corporate thinking behind decisions like this. But there is a point of diminishing returns. How much does 2K have to pay to maintain the activation servers? How much do they have to pay SecuRom to use their software? How much money do they have to pay their tech support to handle the deluge of calls from a launch fiasco? Does that make up for the potential losses to pirates (remembering that each pirated copy != a lost sale), bad press, and outraged geeks? I'd love to see the actuarial analysis on that.

We'd better hope they don't get too far into that type of analysis, because they'd eventually arrive at the conclusion that the only really good model is what Blizzard is doing with WoW -- a continuing income stream from monthly fees in addition to the box purchase, and half the game running on their servers that require authorized client accounts, so there are no piracy issues. It's really the perfect economic model for a game company, with the caveat that it has to be awfully compelling to get enough people to sign up for the monthly fees. Companies like 2K, CA, etc. must be looking at Blizzard with envy.

It would be the death of single-player games if they all worked like that. Few of the specialized, narrow-interest genres like strategy games or simulations would be popular enough (or good enough) for people to fork out a monthly fee on top of the box price.

OTOH.... what might work is if PC game companies just get rid of the $50 box, make the game downloadable, and charge by the month as a rental. Use a server/client setup like WoW so there are no piracy issues. Make the initial rental price steep... maybe $10 USD/month for the first 3 months, then it slides to $5/month for the next 4 months, and then it's free after that (but still requires some degree of server/client interaction for the authorization). Allow the player to quit at any time, and jump back in at whatever price tier they were at. It wouldn't work for all genres... obviously it's better for a game with sustained re-playability like strategy games and simulations, not so great for shooters where some people blast through them in a few days. But with some rate-juggling... maybe a very high rental for the first month of a shooter... it might work.

The game companies would save the cost of physical product distribution too, and we'd be contributing less crap to the landfills. You wouldn't have to jump through any hoops where you have to de-authorize a computer when doing a system upgrade. Just plug your account name and password into a screen on the new computer, and you're in. That's all I had to do with my WoW account after re-installing Windows recently. The back-end server (and needing it to run the game) is all the security Blizzard needs.

Well, it's just a thought. I'd prefer running the risk of not being able to play a classic game years from now, to the current nonsense where we have to keep track of authorizations and de-authorizations. It's bad enough I have to do that with Windows, iTunes, and Photoshop. I'm not going to do it on a regular basis for a game.

[Lemur]

Playing devil's advocate a moment, it's interesting to see that Bioshock has rocketed to number 1 in the UK charts and, according to people who've looked, the PC version hasn't yet been cracked. Nasty as the copy protection is for legitimate users, it does appear to be working. It's the first few weeks where most of the sales are made.

The activation has been cracked, if you believe what you read. There is also a no-CD crack making the rounds. What seems to be holding the bad guys up is the creation of some other bits that have to do with the latest version of SecuROM.

The activation is what cheesed off paying customers like me. And it's already down for the count. What a horrible implementation, 2K. What a dreadful mistake.

Please note that uninstalling the game will not get your license back, according to all reports I have read. That's why 2K/SecuROM will be issuing a license tool someday. In the meantime, guard your install jealously. There is a rather complicated way to back up your license, and it isn't official or approved, but it exists. Lots of mucking about in the registry, so it ain't for the faint of heart.

-edit-

I see Penny Arcade has another brilliant BioShock comic up. This one contains two naughty words, but is very funny.

[Ironside]

The voice of the net is starting to get heard pretty far, this was in one of the major newspaper's review of Bioshock in Sweden.

Däremot finns det problem med kopieringsskyddet på PC-versionen, något som Ken Levine, "Bioshocks" pappa, lovat lösa.

Translated:
"On the other hand (refered before that the game works perfectly, no visible flaws) does it exist problems with the copy protection on the PC-version, something that Ken Levine, "Bioshocks daddy", promised to resolve.

Nothing much, but that's the first time I've seen copy protection even mentioned in a newspaper review.

[Lemur]

And now the entire game has been cracked. From this moment on, paying customers like me are the only ones who have to endure product activation. I wish I could express my frustration level, but the gnashing of teeth can't be transmitted in ASCII text.

[TinCow]

I will admit, it is impressive that it took a week and a half for the game to be cracked. Usually they appear on the torrent sites within 24 hours of release, sometimes even earlier. That actually concerns me a great deal. It seems that their protection method worked better than anything else that has been tried yet. That by itself may be enough to encourage companies to continue to do this kind of thing, despite the outrage from the legitimate consumers. In the long run, one game like this isn't going to cheese me off too much, but if it becomes a trend it will make me a very unhappy bovine.

[Lemur]

I don't think it's a slippery slope fallacy to wonder about how this will play out when a majority of games require activation. Imagine, when you recycle your PC for grandma, needing to deactivate every installed game. Imagine the results of a motherboard failure. Imagine the results of a laptop theft.

That way madness lies.

[doc_bean]

I imagine that once a security system is cracked it's easy to crack again if it's applied to antoher game.

[TinCow]

True, but I don't think we should have to break the law in order to keep our computers running properly.

[Bijo]

What a great thread.

I was uncertain what the fuss was about this game being so good, so praised, and such, but I have finally tried the demo and I must admit it is impressive. Unfortunately I find this demo still poor due to confusion in battles (and a bit surprising as I expected a horror game that would scare me... then again fear is emotion and you know what I think and do about that).

And reading about SecuROM, hah... My main issue with copy protection is that they possibly reduce performance and damage hardware which is reason enough for me to not even get the game.

The graphics setup detects my system and sets it to High though I lower the resolution to 1024x768 or 800x600 and while it is very much playable outside a battle the system requirements are just too high. When a battle starts aiming is rendered sluggish. Lowering the settings doesn't make much difference or when it does it is too ugly and less atmospheric. Can't they just... ah never mind.

Regarding SecuROM... it seems it is also in the World in Conflict demo and I know that performance was severely decreased compared to the beta which apparantly didn't have SecuROM (?). I was forced to lower settings dramatically. It is at least possible that SecuROM influences it in this way.

And it is possible Bioshock COULD run smoother if it didn't have SecuROM installed.

I will deinstall this Bioshock demo, and after a while deinstall the WiC demo and then remove SecuROM. Is there any good tool available for this?

[Lemur]

I will deinstall this Bioshock demo, and after a while deinstall the WiC demo and then remove SecuROM. Is there any good tool available for this?

That would be no. There is no SecuROM removal tool. There are, however, detailed instructions on how to remove the registry entries and hidden files which you can grab from their website.

As the issue has evolved, I've gotten much less stressed about SecuROM, though, and rather more angered by "product activation." I think that's where we need to draw a line in the sand.

[Zenicetus]

The graphics setup detects my system and sets it to High though I lower the resolution to 1024x768 or 800x600 and while it is very much playable outside a battle the system requirements are just too high. When a battle starts aiming is rendered sluggish. Lowering the settings doesn't make much difference or when it does it is too ugly and less atmospheric. Can't they just... ah never mind.

I was a little surprised at how important a smooth frame rate is, for combat in this game. There was a lot of advance hype about role-playing, storytelling, and controlling the environment. All that is in the game, but it still has some strong FPS elements. However, on reflection, System Shock 1 and 2 were hybrids like that too.

I have an older computer (Athlon 64 3800+, 2 Gigs RAM) and I started playing Bioshock with the original video card, a GeForce 6800 Ultra. The game was playable but the combat was frustrating when using guns. I was wasting a lot of ammo, and ammo isn't that plentiful if you aren't shooting well. There are ways to get through the game without focusing so much on guns and precise aiming, but it was still frustrating. So I upgraded to a new video card -- 8800 GTS, 320mb Ram, and that did the trick. Frame rates are very smooth now, even at high res (1600x1200). If you have an older computer like mine, then maybe all you need is a video card upgrade.

Regarding SecuROM... it seems it is also in the World in Conflict demo and I know that performance was severely decreased compared to the beta which apparantly didn't have SecuROM (?). I was forced to lower settings dramatically. It is at least possible that SecuROM influences it in this way.

And it is possible Bioshock COULD run smoother if it didn't have SecuROM installed.

As much as I've been bashing SecureRom in the M2TW:Kingdoms thread (mainly because CA/Sega is being silent about any removal tools), I don't think it affects the actual gameplay. I believe it only runs once at the start of the game to verify the disk, and in Bioshock's case, to check the system profile against number of allowed activations. During gameplay, it shouldn't be doing anything except taking up a tiny bit of RAM, which is probably inconsequential considering everything else the game is doing that eats RAM.

2K has said that they'll remove the activation limit for Bioshock at some point, after the initial sales period is over. I think they've also said they'll release a removal tool for SecureRom that can be used when you uninstall the game. That response from the publisher was enough for me to go ahead and buy Bioshock, but everyone will have to make up their own minds about that balance between wanting to play a hot game, and wanting security and control over your own computer.

[Bijo]

Thanks for the informations.


And I probably need another video card. Better yet, I could've just kept my old X800 which would perform better though I am uncertain if it would allow Bioshock to run with all the effects.