U.S. Senate Does Something Right!!!! I can hardly believe it!!!

[Somebody Else]

I'm still holding out for a flat earther to "round" things out.

Not comparing me to one of them now, are we?

As for the practicalities - no more so than anything else - the hardest part isn't removing the physical barriers... just the ones in the mind.

[Lemur]

No, I am most certainly not comparing you to a flat earther. They're sort of my benchmark for getting multiple perspectives into the Backroom, and they have been for some time.

We have, by my count:

• Euro-Socialists
• Euro-Fascists (well, one)
• Euro-Centrics
• American Theoconservatives
• American Neoconservatives
• American Paleoconservatives
• Assorted Libertarians
• British Labourites (Pro-Blair)
• British Labourites (Anti-Blair)
• British Conservatives
• British Liberals
• Various Nationalists
• Theocrats (well, one)
• Royalists (well, one)
• Assorted Creationists
• Assorted Moderates

and now ...

• Anti-Nationalist One-Worlders (well, one)

Personally, I like the variety, even if I disagree with most. However, we've never had a true-blue flat earther in here. Until we can attract an Orgah who truly, deeply believes that the world is flat, I will not be content.

[Scurvy]

Personally, I like the variety, even if I disagree with most. However, we've never had a true-blue flat earther in here. Until we can attract an Orgah who truly, deeply believes that the world is flat, I will not be content.

we should advertise, which kind of magazine is a flat-earther likely to read?

[Somebody Else]

and now ...

• Anti-Nationalist One-Worlders (well, one)

So... what does my wanting to join the army throw into this? Though, if there were a global kind of army to join...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I consider myself a Reagan Conservative. Where does that place me on your scale on noble member of the rodent family.

....Hmmm. Just occurs to me that Lemurs may not be rodents. I'm thinking ferret, but that's not on track.....just being playful anyway.

[Lemur]

Depending on what kind of Reagan conservative you are, you'd probably be somewhere between American Peloconservative and Assorted Libertarian.

Leumrs are prosimians, you silly Gaelic person.

[Xiahou]

well without sending money mexico has no chance of fixing itself - its just that kind of attitude that makes mexicans want to migrate, "america doesnt want to help us fix our country, so lets migrate to their better country"

Even as grossly mismanaged as it is, the Mexican economy generates almost $700 billion/yr and has substantial oil wealth. The problem is a corrupt, inefficient Mexican government that knows it's far cheaper and easier to send its malcontents to the US rather than bothering to fix its domestic problems.

Throwing money at the Mexican government won't solve their problems.

[Scurvy]

Throwing money at the Mexican government won't solve their problems.

In that case using money to try to fix the mexican government will,

[Kanamori]

There should be a one-world liberal added into there. A world w/o nations is unlikely to happen anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we cannot say what would be best.

[Kralizec]

Even as grossly mismanaged as it is, the Mexican economy generates almost $700 billion/yr and has substantial oil wealth. The problem is a corrupt, inefficient Mexican government that knows it's far cheaper and easier to send its malcontents to the US rather than bothering to fix its domestic problems.

Throwing money at the Mexican government won't solve their problems.

What about the classical libertarian solution- having US companies invest in Mexico?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Leumrs are prosimians, you silly Gaelic person.

Aha! I have caught you out in a flagrant redundancy! Errm, oh, well, never mind.

[Xiahou]

What about the classical libertarian solution- having US companies invest in Mexico?

Sure, that's a great idea. But, iirc the Mexican government limits foreign investment.

In that case using money to try to fix the mexican government will,

No it won't- reform in Mexico will have to come from within. However, it's unlikely to happen as long as illegal immigration is the release valve for Mexico's domestic problems.

[Mooks]

To fix the illegal immigrant problem effectively the goverment has to use some matter of force sooner or later.

My idea you ask? Kick them all out and build a huge ditch 100 yards wide and 50 deep, fill with water and build a few fences and watch towers here and there. Razor wire would be nice. Just a idea.

[Csargo]

What a waste of 1.2 billion dollars.

[Proletariat]

My idea you ask? Kick them all out and build a huge ditch 100 yards wide and 50 deep, fill with water and build a few fences and watch towers here and there. Razor wire would be nice. Just a idea.

Yeah, because Mexicans are too stupid to use boats.



They will continue to come in this country until demand is quelled, like Lemur said. Nothing less than making it cost-inefficient to hire illegals will fix this. They are the real criminals here, not the immigrants.

The answer to this problem is so cut and dry, and easy to implement, yet it will never happen in a hundred years, it's bewildering.

Implementing heavy fines for the business engaging this costs jack. These idiotic wall/ditch ideas cost tons and will do nothing to fix the problem. I don't see this as a start for anything, it's a shallow joke and a huge waste of time.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Implementing heavy fines for the business engaging this costs jack. These idiotic wall/ditch ideas cost tons and will do nothing to fix the problem. I don't see this as a start for anything, it's a shallow joke and a huge waste of time.

Actually Prole' it would take a lot more in the way of enforcement dollars -- though I agree with you that it would be well spent money. I hope you're wrong about your last sentence....but fear you are right.

[Proletariat]

Actually Prole' it would take a lot more in the way of enforcement dollars -- though I agree with you that it would be well spent money.

You're right, I wrote that quickly. The point remains...



Where's Adrian, btw? If you still lurk here at all, I'd like you to explain your view that America has a much higher unemployment rate than the gov't admits during this period of our borders being zerged en masse by people seeking employment.

[AntiochusIII]

Forgot to add, and quite very late, but I suspect this crappy money-wasting god-forsaken bill is going to be touted by every Senator who vote for it as "I've done something about illegal immigration!"

And no more effort--no real effort--will be spent on the actual problem solving. After all, they've "done something!" What else do you want of them?

[Slyspy]

This seems so silly... Can't believe we're actually doing this crap. We jumped bigger fences in highschool with razor wire to avoid paying 2$ or whatever for a ticket.

The only answer to our immigration problem is back breaking fines for the employers who allow this to go on. Until we get something like that, all this fence stuff is a joke, imo.

Quite so Proletariat. Start by hitting those who provide the opportunities, not those who naturally take advantage. Go after the dealers, not the addicts as it were. A fence is just a typical politicians answer to the problem: they must be seen to be doing something, preferably something costly and above all easy, even if it achieves nothing at all!

[Scurvy]

A fence is just a typical politicians answer to the problem: they must be seen to be doing something, preferably something costly and above all easy, even if it achieves nothing at all!

I have some sympathy with them, there is so much pressure to be seen to do something, a fence is extremely symbolic, at the same time as being realtively easy to put up etc. the public pressure the government to do things quickly, im sure the politician would prefer to sort the problem out in the long term (contrary to popular belief - politicians are'nt stupid) however due to him needing to win votes (which is all PR) they are forced into silly and sometimes expensive methods of achieving nothing.

[Slyspy]

If they wanted symbolism they could have put up a sign saying "Mexicans stay out" for a couple of dollars. This is a cop out, and yes it is partly the fault of the democratic system.

[ezrider]

I have some sympathy with them, there is so much pressure to be seen to do something, a fence is extremely symbolic, at the same time as being realtively easy to put up etc. the public pressure the government to do things quickly, im sure the politician would prefer to sort the problem out in the long term (contrary to popular belief - politicians are'nt stupid) however due to him needing to win votes (which is all PR) they are forced into silly and sometimes expensive methods of achieving nothing.

The Berlin wall was also symbolic. In a bad way.

If Politicians wheren't stupid then they'd realise that if they kept on doing reactionary things [like building fences] for votes instead of tackling the issue properly, however unpopular that may be, they'd leave the country in a worse state than when they found it, and with less money to boot.

What next? A "Shoot on sight" policy to help protect the fence?
And what about the sea routes? are they not also viable?

[Stig]

Why do I want to go through the fence? Why shouldn't I get myself a boat and go around it?
We in Europe have a fence (Tangiers or whatever it's called in Spanish Africa) that doesn't work, people just come by boat now.
If things are going well in one country and bad in the other it's normal human thinking to move to that country. You can't stop that, whatever you do ... even Yanks can't *cough*

[Scurvy]

If Politicians wheren't stupid then they'd realise that if they kept on doing reactionary things [like building fences] for votes instead of tackling the issue properly, however unpopular that may be, they'd leave the country in a worse state than when they found it, and with less money to boot.

But politicians dont care about how the country is after they've finished, they know that putting a fence up will get them votes, while solving the issue long-term won't, therefore they build a fence, and advertise it at every opportunity

- also most politicians are quite intelligent --> just very selfish and impractical....

[Mithrandir]

Why not put the money into removing the 'il' from people trying to migrate? Set up centres to teach whatever it is you chaps want your immigrants to know. Just because someone is born in a particular place doesn't make them any more or less of a person than someone born somewhere else.

[doc_bean]

Actually Prole' it would take a lot more in the way of enforcement dollars -- though I agree with you that it would be well spent money. I hope you're wrong about your last sentence....but fear you are right.

It depends on how heavy your fines are.

If the government would start a 'war on illegal immigration' in a similar way as the war on drugs and use use similar measures they could make a ton of money. An illegal immigrant worked in this store ? We're sorry sir, we'll have to put this store on trial. What do you say, get a lawyer ? Sir, property can't hire lawyers, don't be silly !

Combine it with fines and you'd get all the money in the WalMart imperium pretty quickly

[Idaho]

[drone]

Article in the Washington Post about the current shortage of migrant workers on farms. Apparently INS enforcement and better jobs in construction and other services are leaving the farms understaffed. Looks like the cost of fruit is going to go up, and a lot is rotting in the fields.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100301254.html

[yesdachi]

We have, by my count:

I believe we have recently had someone in favor of the “Monarchy” also.

[Mooks]

Farmers shouldnt rely on illegal immigrants.