Deceased Marine Awarded the Medal of Honor

[Ice]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/10/medal.honor/index.html

(CNN) -- President Bush announced on Friday that the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration, will be awarded posthumously to Marine Cpl. Jason Dunham.

In April 2004, Dunham was leading a patrol in an Iraqi town near the Syrian border when the patrol stopped a convoy of cars leaving the scene of an attack on a Marine convoy, according to military and media accounts of the action.

An occupant of one of the cars attacked Dunham and the two fought hand to hand. As they fought, Dunham yelled to fellow Marines, "No, no watch his hand." The attacker then dropped a grenade and Dunham hurled himself on top of it, using his helmet to try to blunt the force of the blast.

Still, Dunham was critically wounded in the explosion and died eight days later at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland.

I actually read a book on him for an English Comp Class. Quite the hero for saving his men the way he did.

[Prince of the Poodles]

"As long as we have Marines like Corporal Dunham, America will never fear for her liberty," President Bush said Friday.

An American hero. God bless the marines!!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Happy birthday to the Marines!

Semper Fidelis.

CR

[Lemur]

He's already got his own Wiki page, which is excellent. How many MOH's have been awarded in this conflict?

[Mithrandir]

Now there's heroïsm.

[Ice]

He's already got his own Wiki page, which is excellent. How many MOH's have been awarded in this conflict?

From the Article:

Dunham will be the second American to receive the Medal of Honor from service in Iraq.

[lars573]

Now there's heroïsm.

Throwing yourself on a grenade is not heroism.

[Mithrandir]

Not per sé, but it is ,in my opinion, when you save lives with it.

[Kongamato]

I always wondered whether a helmet could sufficiently contain a grenade blast. Guess not. I do agree that throwing yourself on a grenade in order to save others' lives is heroism.

[lars573]

Not for me. Not ever. Protect your own neck first, everone else is second.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Not for me. Not ever. Protect your own neck first, everone else is second.

Well, that's kind of the opposite of heroism isn't it?

[Ice]

Throwing yourself on a grenade is not heroism.

Yes it is, to save the lives of others. Protecting your own neck has nothing to do with being a hero.

[BigTex]

I always wondered whether a helmet could sufficiently contain a grenade blast. Guess not. I do agree that throwing yourself on a grenade in order to save others' lives is heroism.

It's not that the helmet wont stop the shrapnel, but the helmet over the top of a grenade is only going to add a seal to an explosive. Sealing explosives tends to make the blast a little worse. But the human body will stop/delflect most of the dangerious shrapnel. A true hero, if only congress would have awarded it sooner.

Throwing yourself on a grenade is not heroism.

Sacrificing yourself so that others can continue to live is heroism.

[drone]

Read the Post article on this, it's combined with the Marine Corps anniversery and the new Marine Corp museum.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111000859.html

Now I know what that thing is I see over the trees when driving along I-95 near Quantico.
http://www.usmcmuseum.org/

Semper Fidelis and happy birthday!

[lars573]

Well, that's kind of the opposite of heroism isn't it?

Not nessisarily.

Yes it is, to save the lives of others. Protecting your own neck has nothing to do with being a hero.

Yes it does, everything.

Sacrificing yourself so that others can continue to live is heroism.

No, risking your life to save others is heroism. Tossing your life away is stupid, and a waste of you.

[Mithrandir]

I'll take the bait.

He risked his life and lost it.

[CrossLOPER]

Technically, all soldiers can be considered heros since they should be willing to sacrifice themselves for "the greater good" (note the quote). However, one must always bring into question the soldier's intentions and how they evolve over time through experience and the main source of motivation that led the soldier into his or her predicament to begin with. Bluntly put, a title does not make you a hero.

Now, toning down a bit on the philosophy, all one needs to be in order to be a hero is to be considered a hero among his people. Truly, what Dunham did was quite brave, perhaps not the most intelligent thing he could have done for the moment, but very brave none-the-less.

[lars573]

I'll take the bait.

He risked his life and lost it.

If he had died after the grenade went off in his helmet while trying to use the helmet to toss the thing or put it under the car and use the helmet to direct the blast up, I might agree. But that's not what happened. The only way I'd athrow myself on a grenade is if it was to keep the other guy I'd just tossed on it in place.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Yes it does, everything.

No it has nothing to do with it. Most heroes wind up dead like this Marine.

Tossing your life away is stupid, and a waste of you.

He didnt toos his away. He saved others by his actions.

If he had died after the grenade went off in his helmet while trying to use the helmet to toss the thing or put it under the car and use the helmet to direct the blast up, I might agree.

Duh? Thats exactly what he did.

The attacker then dropped a grenade and Dunham hurled himself on top of it, using his helmet to try to blunt the force of the blast.

[BigTex]

If he had died after the grenade went off in his helmet while trying to use the helmet to toss the thing or put it under the car and use the helmet to direct the blast up, I might agree. But that's not what happened. The only way I'd athrow myself on a grenade is if it was to keep the other guy I'd just tossed on it in place.

The grenade only has what 5 seconds to burn till boom. Trying to throw it means it could blow up right above your head. Trying to carry it and toss it under a car also means it stands a goodchance of going boom while its near your chest. He acted to save his felows with the only thing he could think of, using himself. He didn't just throw his life away, he more then likely had bodyarmor and used his helmet, he wasnt planing on dieing but he risked and lost.

[Dutch_guy]

If he had died after the grenade went off in his helmet while trying to use the helmet to toss the thing or put it under the car and use the helmet to direct the blast up, I might agree. But that's not what happened.

That isn't what happened, indeed. And because that didn't happen, because he sacrificed himself, 98 percent of the people define such an act as heroisme.

I don't see how dying in an act to save your friends and comrades by throwing yourself on a live nade, isn't considered heroisme - but dying whilst throwing the nade away (out in the open?) is...

[Ice]

If he had died after the grenade went off in his helmet while trying to use the helmet to toss the thing or put it under the car and use the helmet to direct the blast up, I might agree. But that's not what happened. The only way I'd athrow myself on a grenade is if it was to keep the other guy I'd just tossed on it in place.

Give me a break. It was a split second decision. Trying to toss it under a car might have been detremental and killed some of his squad mates. It's easy to go back and say "Rationally thinking about it, he should have done this." Yes, thank you captain obvious,but he lacked the luxury of time. He did what he thought was best to protect his soldiers which included risking and giving his own life. That, in my eyes and most other people's eyes would make him a hero.

[lars573]

The grenade only has what 5 seconds to burn till boom. Trying to throw it means it could blow up right above your head. Trying to carry it and toss it under a car also means it stands a goodchance of going boom while its near your chest. He acted to save his felows with the only thing he could think of, using himself. He didn't just throw his life away, he more then likely had bodyarmor and used his helmet, he wasnt planing on dieing but he risked and lost.

Depends on the type. NATO grenades have a 5 second fuse. But do Soviet ones from the 80's (or more recent Russian/Chinese ones)? Cause that's what were talking about. Also 5 seconds is enough time to boot a greande under a car and run.

Duh? Thats exactly what he did.

Completely not what he did.

I don't see how dying in an act to save your friends and comrades by throwing yourself on a live nade, isn't considered heroisme - but dying whilst throwing the nade away (out in the open?) is...

Easy you die. Your life and limb is more important than 6 other dolts who you may or may not even like. Throwing your stupid self on a live grenade is near certain death. It's a bad death, as it's so pointless.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Completely not what he did.

The only part of your post he didnt do was your stupid and idiotic idea of throwning it under a car or directing the blast up with his helmet. What he did was the best way to protect his fellow Marines.

[lars573]

Give me a break. It was a split second decision. Trying to toss it under a car might have been detremental and killed some of his squad mates. It's easy to go back and say "Rationally thinking about it, he should have done this." Yes, thank you captain obvious,but he lacked the luxury of time. He did what he thought was best to protect his soldiers which included risking and giving his own life. That, in my eyes and most other people's eyes would make him a hero.

If that's how you see it you must have pretty slow reaction time. 5 seconds is a long time when adrenaline is pumping.

The only part of your post he didnt do was your stupid and idiotic idea of throwning it under a car or directing the blast up with his helmet. What he did was the best way to protect his fellow Marines.

No. He put the helmet on the grenade them himself on the helmet. Leaving the force 2 ways to go through him or the ground. Stupid, your more important than your fellow marines.

[Redleg]

Tsk Tsk Lars your arguement is a false one. The Marine did what he thought was necessary to save his fellow marines, at the expense of his own life. Go back and read military history throughout the ages and you will find this Marine's actions is consistent with other recoginized military heros of the past.

[Prince of the Poodles]

Throwing yourself on a grenade is not heroism.

Spoken like a true coward.

"Woohoo I said something different and insulting, give me attention!!"

The man sacrificed himself, whether he knew he would die or not, to protect his squadmates. Who could argue with the heroism of that?

[Redleg]

No. He put the helmet on the grenade them himself on the helmet. Leaving the force 2 ways to go through him or the ground. Stupid, your more important than your fellow marines.

That is the fundmental flaw in your postion. The squad is more important then the individual. The platoon is more important then the squad. And so on and so on up the chain. Individuals that attempt to save the unit at the risk to themselves have been consistently award medals of valor. Some higher then others.

I guess you would call my grandfather a non-hero for driving his dozer over a Japanese sapper that was trying to destroy the bunker which housed his SeaBee command bunker and platoon, while the Japanese soldier was activiting the charge. He was award the Bronze Star, and spent 12-18 monthes learning to walk again afterwards.

Your arguement is false and your understanding of military heroism is completely distorted.

[lars573]

Spoken like a true coward.

"Woohoo I said something different and insulting, give me attention!!"

The man sacrificed himself, whether he knew he would die or not, to protect his squadmates. Who could argue with the heroism of that?

I can and will. Choosing yourself over others isn't cowardice. It scares me that some people think it is.

I guess you would call my grandfather a non-hero for driving his dozer over a Japanese sapper that was trying to destroy the bunker which housed his SeaBee command bunker and platoon, while the Japanese soldier was activiting the charge. He was award the Bronze Star, and spent 12-18 monthes learning to walk again afterwards.

He lived, probably minus a limb. So he is a hero. That situation is not a no-win situation like throwing yourself on a grenade.

[Kralizec]

I wish I could say I'd do the same thing without hesitation. The man is a hero, any attempt to say otherwise is ridiculous.