Fighting the Aztecs

[Fisherking]

Well it was early in the 1400 when they decided the world was round and caravels could be built. I am playing as Scotland and taking my time. It still takes years to make the trip. The generals I have sent have all wound up with the trait of wall talking. On the first encounter I found them before I found Cuba. I attacked with a full stack less a general on that go, and lost. It was a good force too. Any way they ransomed the men back that they took and I ran off and found Cuba and North America.

I came back with four fleets carrying almost full stacks and a couple of young generals…when I left. Once you go out into the open sea it takes 5 or more turns to get to there. (I didn't count)

I went back with the massed armies and attacked again. I took it but it also took a full stack to garrison the place. When you move off to the south they have lots & lost of full stacks to meet you. It seems best to guard the gap in the mountains and try to gang up on single stacks as they come in. I hired like two dozen native mercenaries to help and that is not an exaggeration, but they are running out and they are still coming…

Oh yes, when you load the boats don't leave home with out several spies…that’s jungle over there and Aztecs can hide….

I don't know what all is down south just yet, saw some rebels but that was all thus far.

I am sure that it is going to be a tough fight. They keep waisting my Temples and all my toughest infantry even though I win the battles I can't last for ever and Cuba has not started making units tough enough for this fight yet.

I'll post back maybe if I survive...

Any one else been there????

[Flavius Gonzo]

Looks like you might be one of the first to make it over there! Thanks for posting that info though.

[Fisherking]

There are not less than three provinces held by the Aztecs. Their cities have only one improvement, a great temple. They have quite a few troop types though. I won't talk about all of them here but some are really tough. You won't be taking these cities with a few horsemen! North America is only one province as is Cuba. South America maybe several provinces but I have not landed there. There is no Greenland nor Iceland, that is a bit of a disappointment for me. None of the land masses touch, by the way.

I have killed off about 7 full stack armies and my spies can still see five strong stacks around their next city. I have not even found the third but I can see the border and have a half blind assassin mucking about in it.

I don't have much of a combat force left. I made Cuba into a castle but it is not doing much just yet. I have a full garrison in the first city but it is still on the verge of rebellion. My generals are both too fouled up from the years at sea to put into the city. My finances are getting too bad to do much to reinforce things here. The pope is harassing me and I am at war with his home country though it is strictly a one way affair. The whole of the Americas doesn't seem to be much over 7 provinces total so it is not going to make for mass expansion. I have been unable to exploit any of the recourses thus far but I do know that there is gold in the first two provinces as well as tobacco and chocolate and a few more. I didn't take merchants along but it would be a smart thing to do. You must also be ready for strong storms at sea around Mexico. Be prepared for generals who are totally useless as governors when you arrive but take all you can anyway. Unfortunately Scotland doesn't seem to make much use of fire arms other than cannon. I do think that they would make a difference.

I will try to update this again when I know more.

[Comrade Alexeo]

Sounds like quite the exciting adventure! Keep us posted mate!


My two cent's worth, BTW... According to the map I got with my game, there are:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a total of SIX cities/provinces in the Americas: Miccosukee (Florida panhandle), Caribbean (Cuba - and yes, the name is actually quite fitting, as it comes from the Carib "Indians" who lived there), Tlaxcala (northern "Mexico", which looks like basically just the Yucatan peninsula), Cholula (mid-Mexico), Tenochtitlan (southern Mexico), and Tortaleza (South America, which is just the extreme tip of Brasil).

Note that the Americas are very obviously NOT to scale, both in size to each other and to Europe, and in their positioning on the map (Florida is about equal to Ireland, for example). This is also obviously INTENDED!

[Fisherking]

In deed those are the names of all the cities. Additionally you can not land troops in Mexico other than at Tlaxcala. I believe that it is because they represent inland provinces even though they are on the sea. The route to reach Tenochtitlan is very serpentine. The inland provinces do have tons of resources. Gold, silver, tobacco, chocolate, and dyes are all along the route. Tlaxcala has gold, tobacco, and dye. It is a merchants paradise and no competition of course. Silver is the least valuable after dye but it would seem that you may have double mines in those last two provinces. I don't remember how that worked in RTW... There is only one tobacco in all north America and no resources in Cuba that I have seen.

It will take not less than 5 turns to go from Ireland to Cuba, the most direct route. It takes 4 from Brazil to Africa but you are still a long way from anywhere going that way. Besides there is that full stack of rebel ships that have to be gotten past on the African coast.

As to the war: They keep probing the border but have not gotten past, though my three stacks are now only one with room left for mercenaries. Their mercenaries aren't bad but the Eagle warriors and coyote priests etc. are much meaner and tend to chew up most everything, though I have kept winning out numbered, but then I have two heavily scarred and grizzled generals now. Still the losses I take can not be kept up for ever and while Cuba can now produce a few knights and archers it is not much help. Besides it takes quite a while to ferry them over so I am just holding what I have and trying to make the city manageable. It is still very rebellious and keeps some of my best troops tied down. I think the game will end before I capture all of Mexico or I get driven out.

[jabo0511]

Was just wondering have any of you guys try bringing a sick spy and infiltrate one of their city and spreading diseases just like what happened historically?

[Ciddler]

Sounds like quite the exciting adventure! Keep us posted mate!


My two cent's worth, BTW... According to the map I got with my game, there are:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a total of SIX cities/provinces in the Americas: Miccosukee (Florida panhandle), Caribbean (Cuba - and yes, the name is actually quite fitting, as it comes from the Carib "Indians" who lived there), Tlaxcala (northern "Mexico", which looks like basically just the Yucatan peninsula), Cholula (mid-Mexico), Tenochtitlan (southern Mexico), and Tortaleza (South America, which is just the extreme tip of Brasil).

Note that the Americas are very obviously NOT to scale, both in size to each other and to Europe, and in their positioning on the map (Florida is about equal to Ireland, for example). This is also obviously INTENDED!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It's "Fortaleza" and also you cannot land on the south of the Aztec provinces. You have to land on the north and work your way down. Get Fortaleza (SA) and Moccosukee first, they are owned by rebels and pose no threat.

Good luck! ^^

[Mailman653]

Was just wondering have any of you guys try bringing a sick spy and infiltrate one of their city and spreading diseases just like what happened historically?

I wonder if that would work, though I've noticed that disease seems to effect populations more than it does garrisons.

[Fisherking]

Well if you are bringing it from Europe it takes too long. The spy will either die or get well before he arrives. If you are lucky enough to have it in one of the near by provinces it may work but it won't make so much difference to the armies. They are out of town and those few in town don't really matter quite so much.

So the game ended...but it gave me to option to play on So when would it end end....1953??? or just when you have 45 provinces including Jerusalem. I was first in all fields, so it doesn't seem to declare a winner. Everyone looses...

Well if you want to fight them they are there but you had best bring loads of help and have things well managed at home. Else it just a very expensive side show.

[Mailman653]

Brave new world
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...2-53-03-01.jpg
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...py_/MTW2/2.jpg
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...3-04-51-26.jpg
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...3-15-58-17.jpg
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...3-18-29-79.jpg

Ironic?
https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...4-52-18-51.jpg

[Celtic Warlord]

I have a strange problem once I get the "The World Is Round" message the map takes away the frame and it is replaced with darkness, however I am not able to trek over the sea towards N. America and S. America. This happens with England, France, Spain and Scotland (and all the rest I suspect) ALL on a FRESH installation of the game. I have even tried modifying the event file to make it happen earlier and later on in the game and still it has to effect on the physical ability of being able to move my boats across the sea. Is their only particular boats capable of going across the ocean or have I to wait for another event before being able to land my troops on American soil? This is a really annoying problem and would be extremely grateful if someone would help me thanks

[katank]

You need carracks (highest level boat) in order to cross the ocean.

[Mailman653]

Yes and one you have the carrack, don't let that black empty space fool you, it happend to me which delayed my discovery. Just sail your ship untill it cant go no further, eventually the further you go, the more ocean is revealed to you, so just keep going untill you hit land :)

[lars573]

I just got to 1400, when you get the round world event and the highest port. 6 turns later I discovered the new world. 3 turns after that I landed on Cuba. Then I besieged Carribean (which will be renamed Havana later ). I slaughtered the native rebels with basilisk and musketeer fire. Didn't lose a single man. Now I can recruit Conquitadores!

[katank]

Conquistadores? Are they a merc unit? Do you have to be a specific faction otherwise? How are they stat wise? I've yet to get that far with my game.

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

Conquistadores are a Spanish only heavy cav unit that can only be trained in the Americas. They're really good, high stats and such. I only know of them from Otumba.

[lars573]

Conquistadores? Are they a merc unit? Do you have to be a specific faction otherwise? How are they stat wise? I've yet to get that far with my game.

You have to be the Spainish. But the whole reason I put 171 turns into my Spainish campagin was to do my best impression of Pizzaro and Cortez. They're are 2 Conquistadores units, mounted lancers and dismounted swordsmen. And they both are available at large town level, from the walls. Now I'll have to ship 2 of my basilisks that ar esitting in Leon (I got 4 as a reward from my nobles) a rebauld, another general, and 6 musketeers across the ocean. Then I'll take north america. Then move into the Aztec empire. I'm definatly doing an AAR for that campagin.

[Fisherking]

Yes!!! AAR...cool

Scotland lacks any musketeers. Why I don't know
I don't have the collectors addition...didn't know there was one until after I had the game. It would have been a hard sell to get the wife to agree to the purchase of another copy of the same game at double the price.

[monkian]

Conquistadores are a Spanish only heavy cav unit that can only be trained in the Americas. They're really good, high stats and such. I only know of them from Otumba.

It seems strange to me that only the Spanish would get them.

Of course, Historically, they were a Spanish unit but if your Nation got to the Americas before Spain then surely you would have a similar 'conquering' unit ?

[Musashi]

I haven't made it to the Americas yet, but it seems to me the easiest way to lay waste to the Aztecs would be with lots of horse archers. I mean, they have no cavalry, their ranged troops are nothing special, their real strength is shock infantry... Which is definitely in trouble against skirmishing horse archers...

[Faenaris]

I haven't made it to the Americas yet, but it seems to me the easiest way to lay waste to the Aztecs would be with lots of horse archers. I mean, they have no cavalry, their ranged troops are nothing special, their real strength is shock infantry... Which is definitely in trouble against skirmishing horse archers...

On the other hand, America is one big jungle. While the horse archers may stay out of reach, they won't be doing too well while in the forests. Still, it might be a good tactic, I haven't had much experience with Horse Archers.

[Musashi]

Ah you have a point there. Still, I'd love to have a run at the Americas with the HRE's mounted pistols or Egypt's mounted muskets...

[Mailman653]

I have not attacked the Aztecs in my campaign, I made peace with them lol. I did take over Brazil and Cuba and North American. Since these were settlements I never really fought a open field battle in the new world, though

I suggest using a stern hand with the new world, at least in my experience its better to build cities than castles. The populace is prone to rebel alot even if you converted the lot of them. Imagine upgrading your city/castle with huge walls and towers only to then be kicked out by the populace with a full stack. The same walls you built are the same ones you'll have to attack. I've even seen the native population use horses from one of the stables I built! Don't give them guns!! lol

[Comrade Alexeo]

Ah you have a point there. Still, I'd love to have a run at the Americas with the HRE's mounted pistols or Egypt's mounted muskets...

After some experimenting with HRE vs. Aztecs, I've gotten the impression that Reiters will prove effective to the point of being decisive. Normal cavalry, even Gothic Knights, fare pretty badly against the Aztecs; the initial charge is, of course, devastating, but there are so many Aztecs and their melee skills are so good that even Gothics quickly get torn to shreds. Reiters, on the other hand, can with care avoid too much trouble with the Aztec infantry thanks to their being mounted, their pistols are quite effective at short range (and, of course, are SCAWY! ), AND they're still able to charge home reasonably well - but this time against weakened, worried troops

For the most part, I've concluded that trying to take on the Aztecs in melee is suicidal - even Zweihanders get chewed up - UNLESS you're using pikes (and there you still have to take extra care of your flanks).

When/if I get to the Americas in my current HRE campaign, I'd ideally like to bring

1 General
8-10 pike (Landsknechts or Swiss ideally)
4 Reiters
3-5 Pavise Crossbowmen
2 Arquebusiers

I'm still fiddling around with how it works in custom battles, but tentatively it appears quite effective.

[John_Longarrow]

Has anyone tried mercenary elephants?

I'm thinking of restarting my game and running Turks. I wonder how the folks in the new world would react?

[FactionHeir]

I have and to be honest, any unit you bring along as long as you got a good general will do fine against the aztecs.
They are actually quite easy to fight as I remember all of their generals having less than 5 stars in command and totalling around 6 or 7 full stacks.

Basically you could just bring 2 stacks full of cav and win by overrunning them (was funny when I had one stack of mercs from eastern europe and just charged them all head on - lost 100, they lost 1000)

[Durallan]

this time I'm acutally going to try mass religious converison with priests before I sent troops over, I'm still wondering whether the Timurids are going to attack Denmark New Russia or Denmark New Egypt. just seem to be bashing the same 2 cities right now.

[John_Longarrow]

OK, I tried a little fight out. Looks like 5 elephant units will take appart any aztec force in the jungle with minimal losses. Just as an aside for anyone planning on bringing them.