Princesses

[Lord Condormanius]

I finally got my first princess. The only reason I noticed is that a message came up that said "A Suitable Prince" instead of "A Suitable Husband." I think that the female character only becomes a princess if she is the daughter of a king.

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Yeah you don't get that many of em!

My one lasted 3 turns before she got assassinated! lol

[knoddy]

u get quite a few princessess actually people just continue to fail to realise that if u want them as agents, u must REJECT EVERY marriage proposal for that princess. U DO NOT get a coming of age notification, so if u are not paying attention u will not realise u have a princess in one of ur castles, she will just sit there getting suitable husband offers from all over the place.

Cheers Knoddy

[Lord Condormanius]

But not every female character turns into a princess at age 16, only the daughters of the faction ruler, while he is still in charge.

[Kraxis]

Yup... I think I went through four leaders until one got one, but then he got another right after that. And a couple princes, and I'm expecting a few more princesses.

Somewhat of a change from the barren times.

[Whacker]

If I had to list something that I think MTW did better than M2TW, I'd have to say princesses, in terms of quantity/volume. Having more trollops to march around the map at your whim was fun to do, and with their newly-expanded diplomatic and other capabilities with the M2TW engine, that just makes it that much more fun. I hope CA changes this down the road to make them appear more often.

[Lord Condormanius]

I think the whole family bloodline aspect of MTW was pretty neat. I was hoping to see that in this game. I also recall factions emerging after having been defeated. That was pretty cool too.

[Lothar the Malevolent]

But not every female character turns into a princess at age 16, only the daughters of the faction ruler, while he is still in charge.

Actually daughters of the faction heir become princesses too. I find them to be of limited utility though so im not really bothered that they don't come along too often. I primarily use them on my low loyalty generals. I was using them to create alliances at first until I had a faction go to war with me a few turns after marrying one to a faction heir, poor girl is a widow now after her brother killed her husband in battle.

[Kraxis]

Not to mention they cost 250 florins each turn. They are in fact a unit of knights each. So I would not like it in the least if we had 10-12 of them running around at any time after the initial years.

[Whacker]

Not to mention they cost 250 florins each turn. They are in fact a unit of knights each. So I would not like it in the least if we had 10-12 of them running around at any time after the initial years.

Eesh, I forgot about that, talk about high maintenance. Time to start shopping at the Medieval equivalent of Walmart! Seriously though, I would like to see more princesses running around. Lowering the upkeep commensurately would be good.

[danfda]

...I find them to be of limited utility though so im not really bothered that they don't come along too often. I primarily use them on my low loyalty generals. ...

Has anyone actually had problems with low-loyalty generals? In MTW, I had issues in most of my campaigns (and especially in a select few). In its reincarnated form, M2TW, I have no such problems. In fact, I've only seen one general (in 3 campaigns played, so its not a huge sample set) with lower than 3 loyalty ticks. And he was a bum, but not one I had to worry about.

So, anyone?

[Quillan]

Actually had problems? I haven't, but then I preempted them before they arose. I had a couple of rebellions by low loyalty generals in BI, and learned to keep an eye on that stat. I had one "man of the hour" who turned out to have a loyalty of 1. I sent him off on a suicide mission the first turn, because I wasn't about to depend on him running anything. At least in this game, loyalty doesn't seem to drop as the general earns command stars.

In my current Spanish campaign, I started with two princesses, and have gotten something like 4-5 more thus far. My usual strategy with the ones beyond the first is to send them out, do diplomacy enough to build up to 3-4 charm, then bring them back home and either marry them to my generals if there are any too low in loyalty, or wait for a decent suitor to appear.

[BigTex]

For a princess to appear they need to be the duaghter of the heir or king. Their quite useful while you have them. They seem to earn charm ratings feriocisly quick in diplomacy. I'm not certain of this but are the quality of the suitor's dependant on the princesses charm rating? I've also noticed that princesses in general get better suitor's then a non princess female family member.

A word of caution though. Never marry a low charm princess off. The low charm (0-3) will actually hurt the generals stats, and make him less fertile. The higher their charm the more they will improve the general when they marry them.

[Whoz'onE]

I can't seem to get any of my princesses to become more charming, despite engaging them in diplomacy missions virtually every turn. Anyone have any hints on what I might be doing wrong?

[Lothar the Malevolent]

I just had a princess come of age in a campaign with England, looked at her info page and noticed she already had quite a retinue - delicate blade, fine cosmetics, yappy little dog; nothing out of the ordinary there. But then I saw she also had a mentor and a tutor. Considering that mentor gives +1 command and tutor gives +1 piety and 5% trade bonus it struck as somewhat odd that they would turn up in a princesses retinue, whats next an adulteress?

[BigTex]

whats next an adulteress?

Now that would definately need to give a charm bonus.

[Kraxis]

Yeah, I hate it when I get a princess to marry a nice general and he gets the traits that she is plain and a wretch, then quickly finds himself a mistress. By then I'm certain that he won't ever get children.

[Barny Bangs]

The charm mechanics of princesses elude me completely. My first princess got three charme points by simply negotiating some trade rights and offering some map infos. My later princesses are engaged in Diplomacy all the time, all I get is "Secret Love" Retinue. When I finally married one of them off to one of her cousins (bad for the genes, I know) he got the trait "WIfe is a wretch" =(

The other convinced one of the HRE generals after eight turns of nagging to marry her: He became one of my generals, yet he also got the "WIfe is a Wretch" trait". Now I just let my princesses grow old in their home towns and don't bother with them any more.

[Quillan]

There's a line of traits called GoodPrincess in the files. It has 4 levels; each adds +1 charm. It looks like successful diplomacy (concluding an agreement) adds 1 level of trait every time. However, at least the first two levels and possibly the third get lost just by having one single failure. Most of the time it's not bad; I just trade maps with other factions. However, I've had people reject agreements for ridiculous reasons, or rather no discernable reasons, and lose all the diplomacy skill gained to that point. I got one princess to 4 charm, and married her off to my new leading general who was at loyalty 4. He got both the "Wife is Fair" and "Wife is Popular" traits with the wedding, increasing both public order and the chance of having children.

[Nepereta]

any one had any good inbreeding experiments yet? I am wondering if the 'too many toes' and 'chinless wonder' traits are making a come back. :)

[Zenicetus]

I can't seem to get any of my princesses to become more charming, despite engaging them in diplomacy missions virtually every turn. Anyone have any hints on what I might be doing wrong?

Just keep making successful negotiations. Establish trade, sell or buy map info, make allies, etc. That usually means moving them around a lot, although I've had good success parking them (like diplomats) at choke points with a lot of diplomat traffic like northern Italy. If you can afford it, use cash to sweeten deals, or just make cash gifts to factions that will accept it.

Unless you're a hardcore player, save the game before every negotiation and re-load if the deal isn't successful, because failed diplomacy can lower the charm rating. I've seen it drop by as much as two hearts after a failed deal.

You'll get a secret lover trait after turning down enough marriage proposals (or maybe it's age related), which is -1 to charm (IIRC), but I think that can't be avoided.

On another issue -- does anyone know what the age limit is for childbearing? Do most of you marry off a princess before she hits 40, or do you keep running them as diplomats? I usually marry them eventually to a good target (or accept a good proposal) before they get too old, because that's about the only thing that makes them different from a diplomat. By the time I get 4 or 5 ranks in charm, I start looking for candidates (while still continuing diplomacy).

[unknown_user]

So, is it possible to have princesses marry back into the royal family? If so, how?

I'm going to try to make an insane french family. :P

[Whacker]

So, is it possible to have princesses marry back into the royal family? If so, how?

I'm going to try to make an insane french family. :P

You don't need to inbreed the french typez-ah to get this result.

[Lord Condormanius]

I'm going to try to make an insane french family. :P

Going for a real stretch there, huh?

[Willknott]

I don't normally use cheats in the game such as "give_trait" or "give_ancillary" because it detracts from the enjoyment of building generals by their accomplishments. The one exception I make is with princesses. Specifically, I use the cheats to build up a specific foreign princess before proposing a marriage to my king or faction heir because I enjoy the aspect of the game concerning building a healthy family tree. With that goal in mind, you do not want to marry a princess that looks good only to find out after the ceremony you're married to a wretch which decreases the chances of having children.

There are a number of traits and ancillaries which increase the chances of raising a family. I've discovered from some experimenting and from reading other threads that princesses have a number of specific traits designated for them which I'll list below.

PrettyWoman 1-3 (the results range from making her fair, a head turner, and beautiful, with the latter causing her name to change to __ the Beautiful)

GoodPrincess 1-4 (these can easily be earned through diplomacy but add a correlating heart of charm per number)

NaturalPrincess 1-3 (each number adds a heart and a trait concerning born diplomatic ability)

HumbleWoman 1-2 (will make her humble or respectful, each with a heart of charm)

BraveWoman 1-2 (adds charm hearts and increases personal security)

FaithfulWoman 1-3 (this speaks for itself since secret loves and adulteries in marriages certainly decrease the chance for children, but it also adds charm hearts accordingly)


I think that about sums up all the traits I know of so far designed specifically for princesses, but you can also give her any traits you would give a general or priest. I know the princess traits listed above correspond to certain traits attained by your general after marriage such as "wife is fair", "wife is lovely", "wife is smart", "wife is useful", etc. I'm not sure what other traits designed for the generals might actually result in some difference in your general's governing ability after marriage. I know that giving her the traits results in traits with descriptions added to her character trait list although the trait description still says something like "this man blah, blah, blah".

Giving a princess certain degrees of traits will change her name just like it does for a general - i.e., you can make her ___the Honest, the Honourable, the Just, the Chivalrous, the Saint, the Merciless, etc. I've wondered if you could turn one into some kind of Joan of Arc with traits like "GoodRiskyAttacker", "StrongFaith", "BattleDread", "InspiringSpeaker".

Sticking to the goal in mind of building a family, I've used the general traits "HaleAndHearty" and "Fertile" to prep my target princesses for marriage as these are specific general traits that increase the chances of having children even though the trait descriptions don't fit for a woman. While writing this, it occurred to me to experiment adding "Woman" to "Fertile". It works. The "FertileWoman" trait 1-3 doesn't result in more charm hearts, but it produces trait descriptions ranging from "Fecund" to "Feracious" to "Always Ripe" with the latter stating she could fall pregnant at the whiff of a sweaty man. I guess you probably need to be careful to find a balance of traits as you don't want her falling pregnant at the whiff of any sweaty man. Who wants to be married to a whore? Don't forget the "FaithfulWoman".

I know you can also give princesses ancillaries in a similar way using the "give_ancillary" cheat. Certain ancillaries such as "apothecary", "doctor", and "holy_grail" increase health as well as chances of producing children. There is one ancillary I know of specifically designed for princesses - "chastity_belt" - just in case you created an out of control woman and it is going to take some time to get the marriage settled. This ancillary does decrease her charm and movement ability as you might imagine. Don't worry, you can use the "remove_ancillary" cheat just before the wedding. At least I think that ancillary is meant for princesses. I suppose you could try it on a womanizing general who needs more piety. Better yet, try it on an enemy general to slow down his march toward your city. Just momentarily imagine yourself one of the game witches casting curses on those you don't like. Try making an enemy general a "Cuckold" for a few laughs. Then send a diplomat to bargain giving him back his manhood - game over. It's no wonder these enemy family members don't often venture outside their castles.

There is one princess trait I wasn't sure I should mention in this family oriented forum. I read about it and had to see if it was true. You might not believe it, but you can give a princess the trait "DykeWoman". No kidding - "DykeWoman 1" will make her "potentially confused" and known to flirt with other ladies of the court. This level of "DykeWoman" actually increases her charm, although I can't figure out why - I don't know of any men who get turned on at the thought of two women. Again, you have to be careful what you create. The wrong combination of PoliticsSkill, InspiringSpeaker, and DykeWoman could really change the game. Can we all imagine a medieval Women's Lib movement? Seriously, though, don't try "DykeWoman" level 2, as it will make her prefer women, decrease her charm, and decrease chances for children. Again, I can't imagine why. Don't bother trying above level 2. As far as I know, there is no cheat that will actually cause two princesses to rip off their clothes and go at it right there on the campaign screen during diplomatic negotiations.

Be careful what you wish for - you might get it. Happy creating.


"Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain: But a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised"
Proverbs 31:30

[FactionHeir]

Kind of funny though, I had once accepted a marriage proposal for one of my generals and next thing I know I get a message about him getting the "evil mother in law" retinue :(

Funny stuff about modifying princesses there Willknot, but for some reason give_trait isn't working for me in M2TW, always tells me character not found although character_reset works just fine.

[Willknott]

Kind of funny though, I had once accepted a marriage proposal for one of my generals and next thing I know I get a message about him getting the "evil mother in law" retinue :(

Funny stuff about modifying princesses there Willknot, but for some reason give_trait isn't working for me in M2TW, always tells me character not found although character_reset works just fine.

You might need to have the character outside a city or castle. With single name characters, you use the formula - give_trait Character(capitalized) Trait(capitalized) level. With double name characters, you highlight the character outside a city and use the formula - give_trait "this"(not capitalized and without the quotation marks) Trait(capitalized) level. Adding ancillaries, the formula is the same except the ancillary name is not capitalized and multiple word ancillaries such as "chastity_belt" need to be connected with the underline_.

[FactionHeir]

I've been using for example [give_trait "Robert Gray" BadSpy 3] without the [] which didn't work. So you are saying I should use [give_trait "ROBERT GRAY" BADSPY 3]?
I didn't quite follow your second point with double named characters. Do you mean a character who has a title? For those I found it would work that you used their old name, or for those with 2 last names you just put a _ between the two last names.

[Willknott]

Certain characters in the game start off with two names like Morgan Canmore if you're playing the Scotts. Polish princesses and Milan princesses also have a surname as well as most every spy, merchant, and priest. These characters need to be highlighted outside a city and actually use the word "this"(not capitalized) instead of a name. Multiple word traits are connected without the underline_, but capitalizing each seperate word, such as "GoodRiskyAttacker". Ancillaries are not capitalized. Multiple word ancillaries are connected with an underline_ such as "knight_templar".

[Somebody Else]

Random ancilliary for princesses. Strapping Stalion. Peurile humour at its best. Also, there's a trait which has the princess being something of a flirt. I imagine it's one of the ones that's good at a low level, then goes wrong.

Incidentally, I like to give my princesses the top level "arse" trait - gives the the epithet 'the queen'.