The Org Buglist v2

[Shahed]

Please see here for an armor upgrade bug.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...68#post1327468

Sapi, is it ok if I post links like this or do you prefer if I write up a new post ?

This suits me better as I don't have to retype everything.

[sapi]

tbh (and especially as i'm going away tomorrow for a week) i'd prefer if you summarised it in this thread and linked to the other one, as it'd save me a lot of work when it comes to the compilation.

It's really up to you though.

[Shahed]

Ok NP. I'll do that. :) Please tell me you're not going to surfer's paradise ?

[sapi]

Nope :P

[Shahed]

Well I will one day :P Kinda far from here, but worth the trip I'm sure.

[angelviper]

ok sapi, i will take it slow with more detail explained, and u'r right ma native language isn't enlgish. but i think i expained enough for u to understand about "elephant bug". maybe have never fought to Timur in campaign.

the elephant bug i just call as a shift happens when player chooses to fight Timur, which has elephant units ie elephant cannon, elephant musketeer that is damaged in previous battle with some its troops lost. System can't load the damaged elephant units to next battle. then game's crashed. but i can't see this sort of bug or a bug about timur faction in the list. i ain't criticizing that, just afraid that CA may release the upcoming patch without the bug fixed.

i can't really understand how you don't know this bug because it always happens whenever you fight to Timur more than 2 turns. only solution for this bug at this moment is to edit 'event.txt' that timur never appears in campaign.

[Oaty]

[b]
The game can get stuck in a loop, apparentally when both the faction leader and heir are killed in the same battle.

I can confirm, But I do believe there is a bit more to it than that. If you kill them both in battle I don't think it loops. It's when you capture one or both then ransom them and due to the ransom being refused they get executed, but the engine detects them as being alive somehow. I'm pretty sure this is what causes the loop.

Edit: forgot to add AI won't sally out of forts, One town militia starved out a full stack of Mongols

[PorT_Lobo]

- AI in Campaign map don't garrison properly the settlements, letting human take them without fight! And AI let human army pass/enter in their lands without reaction or consider it an act of war.

- AI don't do landings! AI never leave British Islands and attack by sea!!!

The first two aren't bugs, but the second is. I'll add it in.

If these are not bugs, what are they???

Because they are a terrible lack of AI and destroy the Campaign Game, where M2TW is won!!!!

What we need to do to CA fix this, if it is not a bug????

[Kraxis]

So do you believe that it's due to killing both the faction leader and his heir in the same turn. Interesting...my theory is that the game assigns the new heir at the end of the battle, but only after the current heir has taken over. If he's dead, pandemonium ensures :P

Actually I did some 'royal pruning' by sending my Emperor and his heir to their deaths against the rebels of Bern (I had my eyes on it so I wanted to do some honest damage).

I got both of them killed, in fact the heir dies a little before his father in the battle, but that can hardly be an issue.
Afterwards the game played fine with a new emp and heir. Interestingly the heir that died was now added as a dead emperor. Interesting since he died first.
But the main point was that the game still played on.

[Oaty]

Kraxis The game did get stuck in a loop for me and may only be caused by the AI and not the human losing both. The reason my game ran in a loop(my opinion as to what happened) was I captured the king(or possibly the heir), since I put him up for ransom he was still alive, So the game sees the faction as still alive. Then the ransom is refused wich is my guess is to why the game loops, not locked up as I could exit out of the game smoothly. I waited 5 minutes and the game never progressed I reloaded killed em both and the turn finished fine. I think it can only occur between the time you hit end turn and the new turn begins.


AI concealed units are immune to artillery/missile barrage where as human concealed units are not. Can be a death sentence if the map is covered in trees.

[Zatoichi]

I'll go along with Oaty's interpretation of events - when I think back on it, I killed/captured the king and his heir both times I fought the battle, and offered them for ransom and was refused. Maybe if I'd released the prisoners instead it wouldn't have looped.

Either way, it is a pretty rare occurrence, but annoying when it comes at the end of a hard fought battle (or two hard fought battles in my case!)

[dopp]

This has to do with the armor 'bug' posted above. Basically, units upgraded through the armorsmith line of buildings are not getting the appropriate armor bonuses.

Based on units that already come with some kind of armor in the game, the armor values for the various levels runs as such:

Unarmored = 0 armor : Most militias, musketeers, Tercio Pikemen, arab units
Padded = 4 armor : Italian militia, Jinetes, other light cavalry
Light Mail/Splint = 5 armor : Mailed Knights, various swordsmen, Moorish miltia
Heavy Mail/Splint/Breastplates = 7 armor : Feudal Knights, SAPs, bodyguards
Partial Plate = 8 armor : Chivalric Knights
Full Plate = 9 armor : Late Bodyguards
Advanced Plate = 11 armor : Gendarmes, Gothic Knights

However, when you upgrade at the armorer, you only get +1 armor for each level.

The most important jump is from unarmored to padded armor. It's a whopping 4 points. If you upgraded an unarmored unit to padded instead, it only gives 1 armor. There's also 2-point jumps from light mail to heavy and from full plate to advanced.

Say you take a unit of spear miltia and upgrade it 3 times to heavy mail. The graphic ingame shows them with shiny new helmets, steel breastplates/leggings and chainmail. But their armor reads as only 3. Take a unit that comes with padded armor when first recruited, like Italian spear militia. It starts off with 4 armor. Upgrade it 2 times to heavy mail as well. The same shiny helmets and armor. But they at least have a respectable 6 armor (it's still 1 less than they should be getting).

Some units are even more messed up. Tercio pikemen and musketeers/arquebusiers start of unarmored and their first upgrade level is not padded, it's light mail. So I upgrade them, expecting at least 2 armor, +1 for padded and +1 for mail. I only get 1 armor. With heavy mail and an identical appearance on the battlefield to fully upgraded pikemen, the elite Tercio pikemen have 2 armor compared to 3. I love using Tercio pikemen, but they take hideous casualties because their armor is so bad. I love using musketeers too, and if they had 5 armor like they are supposed to with the light mail upgrade then they could really press their advantage against enemy missile troops (their bullets would ignore enemy armor while their own modest armor protects them from return fire). As it is, however, unarmored troops (most city troops and advanced units) are unfairly gimped because the upgrade system doesn't take the huge jump from unarmored to padded into account, leaving a gap in armor protection between them and castle units (that mostly come with correct armor values) that they cannot close.

A good temporary fix would be to simply give all unarmored units 3 armor to close the gap at the start, although it will not fix the light to heavy mail gap or the full to advanced plate gap.

[JFC]

Couple of new issues Sapi...

1: When attcked with a full stack army and extra units went to battle screen. When I routed the 4 units of archers (no arrows left) the new lot started to move onto the map. First was heavy Cav. Somehow they got stuck (half on, half off the map) and wouldn't move. This the meant that the other 'new' units wouldn't move onto the map.
EDIT: The 'Stuck Unit' was a General. And have now seen the POPE's General unit do this when having a Battle against the Papacy.

2: The routed archers did a U-turn OFF the map and ran back on, through my lines towards the Milanese and got massacred! I had NO control of them.

Also would the people at CA create the 'Choose order of new units' that they had added to the original MTW prior to battle That would be lovely.

[dopp]

There seems to be some kind of bug where a natural disaster prevents you from building watchtowers and forts in the province. I couldn't build any watchtowers in Algiers and Cairo. Then there was an earthquake that flattened Algiers and now I can build there again.

[FactionHeir]

This is mainly taken from the bugs I've posted over at RTW HG forums for M2TW. Hope there are some new additions to the list :)

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- Have inquisitors actually respawn if all or most are killed. Its funny that after you assassinate them all, there is never a comeback for them. At the same time, they should be made less active against factions. I mean why denounce a non heretic christian priest or a diplomat even. Or heirs, princesses and leaders. Maybe them denouncing should be linked less to the target's piety and more to traits and retinues. I.e. having a pagan magician or some anti christian trait should play a bigger role.

- Cavalry reaction time is simply bad. They take forever to break from the enemy and when you order them to charge back in they often just charge half-way and then stop and slowly walk in to melee...

- Units keep too much distance between each other so that you have a huge tail with very few people actually doing the fighting. This greatly favors small armies vs large ones, especially if the small are elite.

- Make sure that units aren't greatly stronger than they seem. i.e. catapult crews or defender town militia on walls that kill any infantry assaulting it.

Also, the AI for pursuing enemies needs major improvements. Having around 20 cavalry chase after 3 routing infantry which all run together (not spread out), I often see my cavalry spread out across 2 screens and run around crazy or just stop short of attacking them, wait idly for a few seconds and chase again. At the moment one really has to do the pursuing manually by running the cav past the point where the routers are currently and then envelop + attack.
Also, once routers get close to exiting the map and you tell your troops to run to near the edge, they just slow down to a great extent even though they are still in running mode. Makes it almost impossible to hit those last few escapers.

Stamina needs some working from what I've seen. Melee infantry tires out really quickly while you can run across the map a few times with heavy cav and its still fresh or merely warmed up.

Hiring cavalry at castles with jousting lists/training grounds seems to be a bit buggy. Each time the cav is hired, i need to retrain them the next turn to actually give them the armor + experience boni, which should really be applied during the hiring process as it is for infantry.
Also, sometimes the retraining costs you a turn and florins but next turn they are still not retrained (rare)

Enemies should use assassins more. Currently I see them at most trying to sabotage (like twice in 100 turns) but never actually murder.

The retraining problem seems to be quite permanent actually and not as rare as I thought. Had a castle where I trained 1 knight hospitaller and 1 mailed knight. THe castle had jousting lists and blacksmith.
Next turn I have to retrain them for some reason because they didn't get the armor or the experience upgrade when trained.
The turn after, I can retrain them again because they still didn't get either and I'm a few thousand florins poorer.
It later started happening to my levy spearmen as well...


Can't ally with factions who were allied to other factions which who I had been at war and who are now destroyed. This means the game isn't erasing the ally info after a faction is eliminated.


Mountain terrain keeps getting units stuck and charging with cav is impossible as they refuse to move quickly or in a group, thus preventing themselves from charging (they automatically wait for rest of the group to catch up)
Also, had cav getting stuck in the middle of a mountain road in battle and they couldn't move anymore. Units also don't seem to be able to fall down a mountain when hit with force...and also don't fall off castle walls anymore like in RTW.


Units with 1 hitpoint often can take multiple arrow/bolt hits before dying. When hit and not blocked by their shield, you often can see a spray of blood coming out and observing a few enemy dismounted feudal knights and some peasant archers I consistently saw some units getting hit multiple times with blood coming out but just not wanting to die, while others in the unit die on the first hit.

Princesses keep getting odd ancillaries that seem totally unrelated, e.g. Mentor and Tutor which increase comm and and tax income....just that a princess doesn't lead battles and doesn't govern cities...

Diplomats and Princesses lose all trait points in their diplomatic ability trait if they fail a negotiation instead of just getting a trait decrease by 1. When they go below 1 (i.e. bad diplomatic ability), you actually have to have a lot of successful negotiations to bring it stepwise back into positives.

Ships can be run into land so far that you cannot move them away anymore unless you hire a mercenary ship on the exact same position. Kind of annoying when that is your crusading army stuck inside that ship.

Agents and armies can move on top of each other and thus displace the other character that was on that coordinate. If thats your merchant, you don't get your income. It seems that normally you can't intentionally (except they stand at your city gates) do that, but if you still had your move to that position from last turn or quickly move your mouse over that place before it refreshes the position and click, that still happens. And the AI does it all the time without problems and displaces my merchants until their characters move away again.


I did an autocombat once because I couldn't be bothered to crush a few rebels manually and got a crushing defeat that way (hate the AI). My general got a trait named "wary of rebels" that way and its description is "no effect". So whats that about then?


When you got a spy targeted to a city and it becomes besieged, ending your turn without manually telling the spy to move into the city causes him to move into the city regardless, bypassing the siege restriction.


When defeating any unit besides bodyguards, if the captain of the army was part of the unit and was captured, he actually counts as that unit type when ransoming/releasing.
I had killed 48 dismounted feudal knights and captured the captain of this unit and after ransoming him to the enemy, he actually got a dismounted feudal knight unit. In theory, captured captains should not show up on the prisoner screen as they aren't really part of the unit. Also bodyguards shouldn't either. Counter example would be me defeating 49 spear militia with 3 mailed knights with a captain. I had only the captain left at the end of the fight after defeating the spears and he vanished.


Annex settlement mission never works. I tried it two ways: Take the town by force - mission expires. Use a princess and trade towns - mission expires. What am I to do??

One of my generals suddenly got the trait "Trouble at Home" which reads something like "No-one talks to him about it, but there are rumors that his wife has a secret love"
Well....this general is not even married....

-Spelling error in the details of "Your forces melt away"
-Grammar error in the details of a successful Regicide mission
-Chivalrous ruler trait range is lost very quickly. I had saintly ruler (level 4 or 5) and leaving that general in a city with very high tax rates, he lost the entire trait in 1 turn.
-Merchants trained when I had the merchants HQ and a master assassins guild would give a newly trained merchant the "merchants guild apprentice" trait which somehow related to the master assassins guild descript. You would also expect a journeyman for the HQ in that respect.
-Knight hospitaler trained from a HQ do not gain the promised experience bonus.
-Templars have no advantage over hospitalers but even lack the health bonus.
-milan cavalry milita cannot be retrained in the city they have been produced in: retrainign will cost florins but next turn they are still the same and still available for retraining.
-Successful regicide mission does not raise the relations between factions as it should. I was still at war with the HRE and on abysmal relations.
-Retraining of knights (cavalry) keeps occuring as an option in fortresses and citadels even if they cannot be retrained for boni and thus only cost you florins. I now also confirmed this without the use of jousting lists/tourney with the Milan faction (which does not have those buildings)
-Attacking orthodox factions (byzantines) while on crusade will drastically kill your relations with the pope


And on the topic of cavalry charges:

The problem with charges now is, that they only work on flat or very very slightly sloping ground. Anything more than that and your cav will slow down dramatically before hitting the target and just go normal melee, which kind of makes the higher ground point moot.
Also, your cav will stop its charge if only a single troop of your own COULD be hit by the charge...in RTW your cav would in that case run over your own troops (only infantry) as well, but at least they'd charge!

If your cav is spread out, only 1 or max two of the units will mini charge in and the rest just slows down.

The problem thus is, that if you got idle cav facing an enemy and give them the charge order, a few of them start running while the rest just trots around and negates your own charge.

Also happens if at least 1 unit in your cav stack has to run around an obstacle. This 1 unit will make everyone else wait right before the actual collision.

Once any of the cav is engaged in melee, all of the units just slow down to less than walking speed and trot around doing nothing instead of joining into the fray and attacking like they did in RTW.
When in melee, only sometimes will they even attack while infantry strikes regularly. This is especially true for cav vs cav. Look at those melee fights closely and you'll notice they often just idle around each other and then once in a while someone will swing a sword. RTW, they'd move into the best position to get hits in, M2TW, they basically wait for something to come into range or splitter off on their own into a mass of enemies to get themselves killed.

While a successful (yet very rare) charge is devastating, the way cav works and the fact that its very hard to even get them to disengage at all from the enemy now (even if you tell them to run-disengage, they just walk...) and because they move so slow (slower than walking) while disengaging you lose quite a few units in the process.

I rather liked the weaker charge but at least proper cav in RTW, because there you could at least be sure that your units would be fighting and charging at all and you could control them better.

Lastly, I noticed that in M2TW cav charges work almost everytime only if the units is like decimated down to 4-7 men. Anything below or above that makes it unpredictable. Below 4 they actually run past the enemy instead of charging into them.

Therefore, cavalry charges are easily negated by the target moving backwards and then turning around and hitting the cav right before they get close, as pursue does not change back to charge after the backwards move but into march/standard attack.

When chasing routers with cav, if there are few routing units, even if bunched up together, your cavalry will spread out across screen to hunt them down and totally miss them and thus lead to them escaping.
-------------------------------

Hope that helped :D

[FactionHeir]

I can't find an edit button anywhere so posting a new post I suppose...

I just wanted to say that the first "bug" i posted in my list above I forgot to cut out. Its not supposed to be there as inquisitors do respawn ;)

Also, I (Milan) had an alliance with the AI (Hungary). Instead of attacking him (he's excommed) and breaking the alliance by betrayal, I did it nicely by sending a diplomat over to cancel the alliance. Doing that got my reputation down from "mixed" to "very untrustworthy" which would have been the case if I had just attacked anyway. Thats kind of silly though as that would mean cancelling an alliance via diplomat is pointless.

Lastly, completing missions etc does not raise your reputation above mixed. But I've seen some AI getting a "reasonable" reputation. But that was an isolated AI that didn't have contact with anyone (Russia)

[FactionHeir]

Sorry for triple post now! :( Can someone suggest a better way of doing this or just merge my posts?

I just remembered, that the AI often places diplomats and princesses around your settlements who, on ending turn always make a move against the settlement but nothing happens (trying to bribe?) but they do this every single turn and never go away unless by dying or you moving them away by bumping them away with an army or agent. They always stay at that specific settlement too instead of moving around. Its just kind of irritating as this will then be shown to you on ending your turn even if you have "do not show AI moves" enabled. On a slow rig, having some 8 diplomats/princesses around various settlements does take a long time for ending turns thus.

[Bijo]

Lots has been said already, but I'll add some stuff.


I've noticed a repeating crash while playing as Spain. In turn 45 it crashes almost immediately after I end the turn. I really have no idea at all what it might be.

[Whacker]

OK, two things I'd like to toss in here.

1. I've read this a number of places in other posts, and I firmly believe that this is a bug. It seems that when one builds an upgrade building in a settlement that allows for better armor or weapons, when one retrains a unit that's affected by this, the "retrained" unit takes away from the unit recruitment pool. If I have a full strength unit that is only getting better armor, then logically this shouldn't remove anything from the existing unit pool. After all, the existing guys are just getting some shiny new duds, we're not adding or replacing anyone.

2. Regarding the archer stakes inside a city. I am somewhat disinclined to agree this is a bug, more of a "feature or balance request". Plopping down stakes inside a city makes a ton of sense, imo, in terms of defense, yet I can see it be unbalancing to others, mainly in terms of cav in multiplayer. (isn't taking cav to a city siege somewhat of a bad idea anyway? charging down those thin streets doesn't work that well, and cav tends to get rather handily mulched in melee) If the AI in SP can use it as well, then my thoughts are all's fair in love and war. Anyway, I guess my inclination is to move that bit to the patch wishlist, and I still say I like that "feature". It's up to you sapster.

Cheers!

[FactionHeir]

If you place a repair after a construction, the repair will not be done until after the construction is complete, but you are charged for it now already. You actually have to queue the repairs to the front and construction last for it to work properly. A problem that didn't exist in RTW.

[barocca]

Heirs coming of age and ships,

i have a save game with my king and a full army in a little fleet,
a son comes of age and i now have a teeny problem,
because the heir makes 21 units the fleet, the king, his fleet and his army vanish,
you cant select them from the campaign map,

but they can be recovered,
move another ship next to the fleet,
use the faction members panel to locate the prince,
and move the prince into the new fleet,
now you can have your king, his army and his fleet back.
B.

[Oaty]

AI army that is forced to fight to death may trie to withdraw from a battle. The fight to the death icon showed up on the battle options screen on the campaign map. The battle starts the AI withdraws, and upon returning the whole army dissapears as should but the AI should not have that option available.

Did a custom battle to confirm and an all cavalry army can route units off the wall, minus 1 cannon to open the gates wich did not fire afterwards.

[Whacker]

As indicated in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72718

There are several config options for the medieval.preferences.cfg file that will not keep, as the .exe keeps overwriting this with a fresh copy. Examples of options that won't stay and must be manually re-added every time the game is started:

editor = 1

movies = 0

Making the file read-only fixes this, but it also prevents changes to the graphics options and other variables stored in the file.

[Oaty]

Elephants can capture the enemies gatehouse from outside the settlement in a minor city and possibly any size wall. It may be caused by there height that triggers this.

[Lord Leonard]

Firstly, good job on this thread Sapi. I hope CA reciprocates your hard work with a solid patch. You'll at least deserve a XXXX for your hard work!!!

Not sure if this is a bug or a little bit of a cheat.

A crusade is called. You are the first army at the crusade target and place the city under siege. On the next turn all of the siege equip is ready and you know you will take the city for sure. Before you grab the city, you move all generals with armies out of your towns (limited to without going revolt or turn the tax rates down to low and move even more out) and join each individual army in the crusade. In fact, join every non-garrison general-led army you have into the crusade no matter where they are on the map. Then, capture the crusade target and whala!!! All of your crusading armies will have +1 experience.

On one crusade I got 147 units +1 experience, although only one stack went to the Middle East. You don't even need to move them SE from their positions as this all happens within the same turn and you can move them back into the cities as garrison forces again.

I believe this experience bonus should be limited to crusading armies which have at least moved 2-3 turns towards the crusade target or limited to only the actual army that captures the target itself. Otherwise, after 9 crusades you could have Gold Sgt Spear Militia guarding all your cities, without ever seeing battle or sand once in their careers.

[FactionHeir]

I can confirm this and admittedly I use that quite a lot, but you do need several generals at hand in or near your own towns for it to work, and my generals are usually in the field, so I use it to bump up my field armies some.
You also tend to get a few more florins for each unit on the crusade or so.
I think my best was 200 units getting an experience bonus :D

While it kind of seems like an exploit, to really exploit it you must be kind of static with your generals which prevents you from having a lengthy campaign in enemy lands. While you can still do on campaigns as mentioned just now, you'll get less units an experience bonus in total, albeit your better units. But then you tend to lose units in battles anyway (low heal rate in M2TW compared to RTW) so it is really only temporary.

[Kraxis]

AI concealed units are immune to artillery/missile barrage where as human concealed units are not. Can be a death sentence if the map is covered in trees.

How so? Because you don't see any bodies? Cause I have decimated lots of enemy units that have been consealed.

[Oaty]

^^ you sure on that Kraxis? I watched half a battle with cannons firing and when shots landed on a where a unit was hidden there were no dead bodies, along with no increase in percentage killed. Maybe for you the AI kept moving around and when it does there is a short delay they are vulnerable.

Edit: I know I'll play a custom battle with many cannons bombard the heck out of the AI and then watch the replay (fudge replays are a bit messed up). So the replay wont give a good answer

[FactionHeir]

While I can't exactly remember, I think my crossbows were able to kill hidden units (I always aim at the unit at the very back as bolts will strike any unit in line that way), although to a much lower extent than visible units (you can count bodies). Hidden units crouch on the floor though, so you'd except that.

[hata]

Improvement suggestion on battle AI:

1. The enemy doesn't react to cavalry flanking even on VH on custom battle unless you get in really close :(

2. Instead of attacking at the same time, enemy ai reinforcements always
march so slowly to the player's troop, stand still and wont attack the player with the main force together on meeting engagement. That let the player to deal with the enemy force 1 by 1. It would be great if the enemy ai reinforcements are more aggressive and have better coordination with the main force.

3. It happens way too often that bombard or the likes kill the enemy general during pre-battle skirmish.

4. Suicidal general still happens :(. It would be great if the enemy general wont engage at least until the mid of the battle. Now, the enemy general is so easy to get lured by archers or light cavalry.

It'd be much more challenging if the above issues get improved.
Right now, the battle ai is not that challenging and it is quite easy to win even on VH.