Is the armour factory useless AKA can any units actually use it?

[Kraxis]

It is not a bug... the game is designed this way, and I'm quite sure it is intended to be like this.
That doesn't meant it is right however, but it is not a bug. And as such shouldn't be reported as one.

[dopp]

I think it might be a bug because of the inconsistencies, but even if not it's still a possible balance issue. I just want an official reply on this if possible. If it's not a bug then I can mod it for myself when the patch comes out. If it's a bug then maybe they will fix it in the next patch or something. The bug list includes balance suggestions like "tone down inquisitors" as well as confirmed bugs, so why wouldn't this fit in with them?

[andrewt]

IMO, if a faction doesn't have a unit that can upgrade using the armor factory, why let that faction build it in the first place. In M:TW, I'm pretty sure factions that can't use the highest upgrade can't build that building.

[dopp]

In MTW, the upgrades worked for all units, even artillery. If you had a level 4 armorer then all units retrained there would get +4 armor, whether they were peasants or gothic knights. So all factions could use all levels of the armorer. However, if you had lots of desert regions then you would skip on upgrading, because otherwise your troops would be less effective in the heat.

[Faenaris]

I thought an armoury factory would be able to upgrade Gothic Knights, but yesterday, I found out that GK's can't be upgraded. So, I don't know if the Armour Factory has any uses at all.

[dopp]

None at all, unless you have some late western bodyguards you want to upgrade. They are the only unit I know of that comes with full plate and can be upgraded to advanced plate. Your gothics already have advanced plate.

[Shaun]

Why would you want it to give the same values to all units with a given armor type? The game would be dull as all hell if that happened. Variety is good for gameplay.

You're asking for historical accuracy at the expense of gameplay here.

I have to disagree here, comon logic states that, say, a pikeman with the advance plate armour and a knight with the same armour should have the same armour stat. I dont see why this is at the cost of gameplay at all.

So does anyone know of any units that can use the advance plate upgrade?

[dopp]

Yes, the late bodyguards of western generals can be upgraded to advanced plate. They are the only ones I can think of.

Interestingly enough, gothic knights only have 10 armor compared to 11 armor for gendarmes, even though they both wear advanced plate. The gothics do have a higher defense skill and AP weapons to compensate.

[Faenaris]

None at all, unless you have some late western bodyguards you want to upgrade. They are the only unit I know of that comes with full plate and can be upgraded to advanced plate. Your gothics already have advanced plate.

Ah, that explains a lot. Thanks for the info, dopp.

[zaher]

Well, i can tell from my experience, that armour factory have to be used basically by Venice ( late technology in faction description ) to upgrade Broken Lancers as they can be upgraded to advanced plate only. And they really need it , because they are best Venice heavy cavalry while cannot compare to quality of neighbourns heavy cavalry.

[Miracle]

Lancers and Gendarmes actually use "Super Advanced Plate" since their armor value is 11, not 10 (which corresponds to Advanced Plate).

Here are all the units that can use Armour Factory:

Dismounted_Broken_Lances
Dismounted_Mercenary_Knights
Dismounted_NE_Bodyguard
Broken_Lances
Condottieri
EE_Late_Bodyguard
Famiglia_Ducale
ME_Late_Bodyguard
Mercenary_German_Knights
NE_Late_Bodyguard
SE_Late_Bodyguard

Basically all these units have an armor value of 9.

Source: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76702

[FactionHeir]

You missed out Italian Men at Arms (both mounted and dismounted) and Mercenary german knights cannot be upped to advanced plate.

Not anything with armor 9 can be upped to advanced plate. Some have base armor lower than 9 and others cannot be upped above 9.

[Miracle]

Correct, FactionHeir. I was going to rectify that.

The Middle Eastern Bodyguard and mercenary units listed above cannot be upgraded, whilst MAA can.

[Foz]

Since we've apparently resurrected a dead thread (all previous posts were 12/03/06 and prior) I figured I'd at least bounce in to give the updated findings about armor. Basically, we determined that the armor upgrade system DOES actually work how one would hope: the bonuses given make the unit have armor equal to what other units pictured with the same type actually get. That is, instead of the +1 the unit sheet says you're getting, if you upgraded a no-armor unit to padded, they now have +4 armor. Padded is the most notable one, but some others jump 2 points instead of 1 as well. The info seems to have made a lot of people much happier with the upgrade system, since it's really doing what it says it was supposed to do

[JJx]

The point her is WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT U'YOU GET.
In battle map you dont look at stats once the fight is on.
Just a look at the unit, should tell you what it can or cannot do.
Contrary to what someone said, this is not a cheap video game.
WYSEEWEGET is what everyone expect.
You see metal, you exepct metal armor stats not 1 point.
1 point armor doesnot exist in the unit stats, and all of a soudent,
after load of investment and expectations: 1 point by the smithy!
Strange...
Very strange...

[Carl]

WYSEEWEGET is what everyone expect.

it's WYSIWYG actually.