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Thread: New World- what kind of army?

  1. #1
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default New World- what kind of army?

    I'm the Spanish currently and I am about 125 turns through the game. First, I want to say this game is amazing and I love it. I have enormous amounts of wealth and power. Anyone who fights me immediately asks for a ceasefire due to the high level infantry, calvary, and cannons I possess.

    Anyway, I'm assuming I'll be able to access the new world soon. I have an exploders guild and have many dockyards on the coasts of present day portugal and Spain.

    What should my armies consist of going to the new world? Should I bring a lot of gun powder units (muskets), should I bring a lot of heavy infantry, or should I bring a lot of calvary? I know I'm definately going to bring enormous cannons to breach cities quickly, but I'm not sure about the rest.



  2. #2
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Mercenary Horse Archers vs. an all-infantry army. I drool at the prospect.

    Consider Jinetes or Mounted Crossbowmen if you want a Spanish Army.
    Last edited by Doug-Thompson; 12-01-2006 at 23:10.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    I haven't seen much of America, but they have a few archers that can counter missile cavalry.

    I would go (and I am going) with Arquebusiers (cheap and effective), heavy infantry and light cavalry (after a few cannon shots and Arquebusier volleys the morale should be low enough to rout them after a quick charge).

    Influence:

  4. #4
    Still warlusting... Member Warluster's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    I will go with everything, train everything, ship them over there and wipe them out like a horde!

  5. #5
    Member Member Zenicetus's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Horse archers sound fun, but might be hard to maintain at full strength over there. I think the only local mercs you can hire are Indian infantry. You get the special Conquistador unit, but that's a mounted knight, isn't it? To maintain a HA army against all those full-stack waves of Aztecs might require a steady stream of reinforcements from the Old World.

    I'd like to try musketeers, with local Indian mercs as a sacrificial pinning force, and whatever cav I can scrape up. But they probably have the same recruitment/retraining problem. There won't be any big cities over there with the ability to replenish lost units for a while. Might have to go bog-standard for army composition in the first several years, unless you have a whoppin' big economy and lots of ships for sending reinforcements.

    P.S. that's all just armchair generalship, since I'm playing Spain but haven't reached that point yet.
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  6. #6
    Signifer, Cohors II Legio II Member Comrade Alexeo's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    After experimenting with HRE vs. Aztec custom battles, here are some possible helpers:

    1) DON'T bother with sword or spear infantry. They'll be destroyed by the Aztecs in melee.

    2) DO use lots of of pikemen and, perhaps, halberdiers. In the case of Spain, you're lucky that you have Tercios.

    3) DON'T use heavy cavalry unless you can ensure they'll get a good charge, as they also tend to fall apart in melee

    4) DO use missile cavalry, especially those that can melee reasonably well (like HRE Reiters); you can charge them in after you weaken the enemy with barrages. Those that don't (like, I suspect, Mounted Crossbowmen), be prepared to micromanage them.

    5) DON'T use exclusively gunpowder infantry.

    6) DO use Musketeers AND Pavise Crossbowmen in concert. The former are to scare the Aztecs, while the latter are there for sheer killing prowess (and survivability, as your supply lines are effectively nonexistent in the New World).

    7) DON'T expect artillery to be a panacea, and don't bother with really big artillery pieces either.

    8) DO bring artillery like Serpentines and try and concentrate them on the enemy general; and/or some Ribaults to strengthen your flanks.


    Hope these help!
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  7. #7

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    As the scots I beat 4 full stacks of aztecs with 7 Noble Pikemen, 8 Noble Highland Archers, 4 Knights and ze General.

    Just siege a castle and wait for the rescueattempt...

    Hole up in a corner of the map with your inf and general, while the knights
    hit'n'run... You run out of arrows pretty fast, so I'm wondering if crossbows
    would have been a better choice. But I've never had so many perfect charges =)

    Seeing four units of aztecs go down in two seconds was awesome =)=)
    (I'm not much of a cav player)

  8. #8
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Alexeo
    After experimenting with HRE vs. Aztec custom battles, here are some possible helpers:

    1) DON'T bother with sword or spear infantry. They'll be destroyed by the Aztecs in melee.

    3) DON'T use heavy cavalry unless you can ensure they'll get a good charge, as they also tend to fall apart in melee



    Hope these help!
    Even if I have the highest level knights with upgraded armor and weapons? How will unarmored aztecs tear them apart?



  9. #9
    Signifer, Cohors II Legio II Member Comrade Alexeo's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    I've tried Zweihanders and Gothic Knights (mounted) against Aztec armies. The Zweihanders often scatter within a minute in once in melee. Gothic Knights can be devastating if you manage to get them to charge (difficult with all the trees), and will slog their way through a melee for some time, but are quickly bogged down due to the huge Aztec armies and eventually fall, taking some but invariably not enough Aztecs with them.
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  10. #10
    Member Member econmists's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Playing as the Brits I sent a newly minted stack of: dismounted knights (swords and warhammers) and feudal calvary, cannon battery, longbowmen and arquebusiers in support + one family member general unit. I also recruited a whole stack of native mercs. I found out a couple things: one: in the thick foliage it is damn hard to see what is going down, two: cannons *at least the ones I was using* were worthless, three: calv charges were broken up by the heavy tree growth, four; unsupported merc natives are hopleless. My merc indian stack was ahead of my main stack and it got jumped and annihlated. Stacks seemed to be swarming from everywhere and I had to fight my way back to the city I had taken. I was then sieged and overrun. Too busy fighting pretty much all of Europe to get another army together.

    Meanwhile on the lower american land mass, which was easily conquered, my occupying force was pushed out of the town during a rebellion. Rebellion seemed to come outta no where, regardless of the fact that i had built a town watch & church plus had a full stack occupying the town.

  11. #11
    Member Member Marius Dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Whatever you do, Fill your boats with Priests and spies, Assassins, Diplomats and Merchants.

  12. #12
    Member Member Marius Dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Whatever you do, Fill your boats with Priests and spies, Assassins, Diplomats and Merchants.

  13. #13

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Ive been to the americas in one of my campaigns and its not that easy over there but heres what i think.

    1) The best thing i think you can do is take the rebel settelments in the Carribean & the US just so youve got somewere local to resupply.

    2) When crossing the Atlantic move up to Ireland (by sea west coast) about the middle of it then go directly west its the fastest way to get to the americas. As your movement across the deep ocean is reduced alot and i think this is the shortest distance to shallow waters again.

    3) Take at least 2 stacks actually take as many as possible with as many generals as possible(for hireing mercs) and have plenty of cash to tech up the rebel settelments as fast as you can for resupply & retraining.

    4) Forget about the cavalry and cannons it is litterly near enough all jungle over there (were the aztecs are it is anyway) with very little open spaces. So take your best units that have bonus for fighting in the woods (i.e. if you were England heavey billmen would be proberly best). Maybe sherwood archers would be good aswell if youve got a good woodsman guild.

    5) In between every turn while traveling build forts because they will mob you with 3 stacks at once.

    6) As someone else said take loads of spies, assasins, and preist/imams

    Thats my plan anyway in my new campaign for what im going to do when i go to the americas although ive just had a good idea. Im goimg to hire myself some elephant mercs near baghdad if i can and take them with me and see what carnage they can cause.

  14. #14
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Wow, the Americas suck. First, I took me about 15 years to train an army. Fine. Next it takes me 10 years to sail across the ocean from Lisbon. Fine. I end up in Brazil capture it and send my merchants to work. What starts to tick me off is the fact that I can't land in Mexico, unless I go ALL THE WAY AROUND and land up near the Yucatan. Next, I capture an Aztec city no real problem. That's cool. I do have to say, the resources there are amazing. I was making enormous amounts of cash (realistic I suppose) using merchants on chocolate, silver, gold, and tobacco. What really gets to me is the Aztec armies. I just don't understand how armoed advanced knights, can lose to unarmored guys running around in loin clothes. Another thing I can't stand is that I brought two armies, each with 3 units of muskets. The muskets are useless half the time. It's like "guess whether the guns will fire or not". Sometimes they work, other times they sit around and scratch their... you get the point.

    Finally, both my Generals died from storms, so I couldn't hire mercs. It was just extremely frustrating due to the amount of time I put in. Oh yeah, I ended up getting annaliated. I still hold Brazil though.



  15. #15
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Have never gotten to that point as I usually got the long campaign victory conditions fulfilled within 70 turns, but I would imagine that you could force a revolt or at least unrest by converting all regions to your religion and then sending a few spies into settlements. As your religion is different from theirs: religious unrest up to 80%. And with spies: +30% unrest.
    If all cities revolt/fall, the faction becomes rebel :D
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  16. #16
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Alexeo
    After experimenting with HRE vs. Aztec custom battles, here are some possible helpers:

    1) DON'T bother with sword or spear infantry. They'll be destroyed by the Aztecs in melee.

    2) DO use lots of of pikemen and, perhaps, halberdiers. In the case of Spain, you're lucky that you have Tercios.

    3) DON'T use heavy cavalry unless you can ensure they'll get a good charge, as they also tend to fall apart in melee

    4) DO use missile cavalry, especially those that can melee reasonably well (like HRE Reiters); you can charge them in after you weaken the enemy with barrages. Those that don't (like, I suspect, Mounted Crossbowmen), be prepared to micromanage them.

    5) DON'T use exclusively gunpowder infantry.

    6) DO use Musketeers AND Pavise Crossbowmen in concert. The former are to scare the Aztecs, while the latter are there for sheer killing prowess (and survivability, as your supply lines are effectively nonexistent in the New World).

    7) DON'T expect artillery to be a panacea, and don't bother with really big artillery pieces either.

    8) DO bring artillery like Serpentines and try and concentrate them on the enemy general; and/or some Ribaults to strengthen your flanks.


    Hope these help!
    Foot Conquistadores can take it to Aztecs in melee. Mounted Conquistadores should be used to assassinate the Aztec generals. Then the Aztecs tend to retire. My Spainish armies in Mexico are Conquistadores (6 foot 4 mounted) 4 musketeers, basiliks, and my general.
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  17. #17
    Member Member Shaun's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Quote Originally Posted by econmists
    Playing as the Brits I sent a newly minted stack of: dismounted knights (swords and warhammers) and feudal calvary, cannon battery, longbowmen and arquebusiers in support + one family member general unit. I also recruited a whole stack of native mercs. I found out a couple things: one: in the thick foliage it is damn hard to see what is going down, two: cannons *at least the ones I was using* were worthless, three: calv charges were broken up by the heavy tree growth, four; unsupported merc natives are hopleless. My merc indian stack was ahead of my main stack and it got jumped and annihlated. Stacks seemed to be swarming from everywhere and I had to fight my way back to the city I had taken. I was then sieged and overrun. Too busy fighting pretty much all of Europe to get another army together.

    Meanwhile on the lower american land mass, which was easily conquered, my occupying force was pushed out of the town during a rebellion. Rebellion seemed to come outta no where, regardless of the fact that i had built a town watch & church plus had a full stack occupying the town.
    What British faction is this?

  18. #18

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Has anyone thought of hiring elephant mercenaries and using them against the aztecs?

    I haven't reached America yet but that is a idea I had to deal with the numbers. I know the elephants devasted my army very quickly.

  19. #19
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Have you thought of sending an agent with the plague there first?


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  20. #20
    Member Member dismal's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marius Dynamite
    Whatever you do, Fill your boats with Priests and spies, Assassins, Diplomats and Merchants.
    That's my current plan as Spain.

    I extended my short campaign (which I won 100 years ago) just to have a crack at the New World. First ship just departed with about 12 agents only. I'm hoping it'll be my only voyage.

    Gonna see if I can conquer the new world without sending troops over. Just bribery and conquistadores, etc.

    I'll probably make a stack of mounted crossbows just for the heckofit I want see what they can do. Problem is I can make them in my castles in France and my active fronts will be the Aztecs in the New World and the Mongols in Egypt.

  21. #21

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Conquistadores should do the trick, though I haven't had the time to play till that late in the game. What are they like and how do they work. How do you get them - I read they are only availible in the new world?
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  22. #22
    Member Member Musashi's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    i don't think the Aztec's prowess is unreasonable... Cortez had his tail handed to him a couple of times in battle with them... Honestly if it hadn't been for smallpox neither Cortez nor Pizarro could ever have succeeded.
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  23. #23
    Captain Obvious Member Maizel's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Why do people get upset if the game makes things a little hard for them?

  24. #24

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    Elephant cannons against the Aztecs, I suppose that's the only form of effective artillery one could use in the jungles of Americas...

  25. #25
    Member Member Piko's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    You guys must be kidding me, conquering the Aztecs is unbelievably simple....
    I did it with a stack and a half of late English troops, 1 stack with 6 generals and 4 demi lancers and 5 infrantry units (1 dismounted knights, 3 spearmen militias) and a half stack with 1 general, 1 rhibault, a bombard and some arquebusiers, my first army got caught in a storm and 3 generals died... my other troops survived though, that stack took the Caribs and Florida, then both stacks landed near the Northernmost Aztec city, I crushed their armies, using the native mercs.... it worked like a charm!

  26. #26
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    For a very low casualty approach, all HA armies complemented by a few lancers and a unit or two of cannoniphants.

    In a Turk game, the experienced siphais from numerous campaigns including against Mongols and Timurids arrive in the New World complemented by some newly hired cannoniphants. Bag and shoot. Then charge through. White flags everywhere.

    Aztecs are ridiculously easy compared to Mongols or Timurids. Twas also great fun to stomp them with eles.

  27. #27

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    I just fought them at chokepoints with superior scottish heavy infantry. In jungle battles, you can get hopelessly outnumbered and outflanked, plus you can't see a thing, but in sieges (as the attacker or defender), you can negate their number advantage by forcing them to fight man-to-man in tight spots, where presumably your experienced, heavily armored infantry will win. Once a few of their frontline units rout, the rest waiting behind for a fight will start to get demoralized too. That's when you run your cavalry through the gates and massacre hundreds of natives in one go :O If that doesn't rout them, nothing will.

    Archers are also quite strong since theirs are weak and they'll stand you off while their archers exchange fire.

    Just don't get stuck in the jungles. Build a fort at the end of every turn if you have to, nothing's worse than being outnumbered 2 to 1 and not being able to see a damn thing five feet in front of you.

  28. #28
    Member Member dismal's Avatar
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    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    I did make it over there with an all mounted crossbow army, and the results were just OK.

    The Aztecs are quite easy to beat when you have the full stack, but they have enough archers to whittle away at your stack and you have no means to replace them.

    The Aztec's siege capabilities are pathetic. Take one of their cities, and they can be slaughtered trying to get it back.

  29. #29

    Default Re: New World- what kind of army?

    dont get stuck in the jungle - after taking their first city and moving south i ended up losing loads of troops after getting ambushed a fewtimes and had to fight my way back up. heavy cav is useless in the jungle - if you think it was difficult to mamage a charge before try it in america, i have lost loads of top end knights.
    missile cav with skirmish mode on are effective however.

    fighting eiges- both attacking and defending is relatively easy. i would concur with the idea of building forts in the jungle - only problem was my general was killed in my first jungle batle - bring LOTS of generals

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