Nubian's V Berbers

**FactionHeir** · 12-03-2006, 23:49

Well, in their abilities section it doesn't mention armored horses or give them any extra boni, so how does it really impact anything? Are there like hidden stats?

**Kobal2fr** · 12-04-2006, 00:18

It's not mentionned for any of the armored horses, but it is shown on the picture, and yes it does have a "hidden" impact - armored horses are much more resilient to missile and melee. What is shown on the unit card is the rider's armour, but there's a "mount type" variable in the unit file as well.

**Husar** · 12-04-2006, 00:19

Looking at the total defense seems to be wrong, many units have a lower or equal total defense but with higher armour. Armour simply protects them always and from every direction whereas shields and defense don't.
And concerning attack, it usually states the lance attack for knights I think, the sword/mace attack should have different stats and maces should give armour piercing bonus. That's how it was in RTW at least but I'm pretty sure it hasn't been changed much.

**CaptainSolo** · 12-04-2006, 06:57

I listed Total defence to make it a shorter post.

The stats that make up the total defence value are identical in every way for both units,same armour etc.

**Furious Mental** · 12-04-2006, 07:00

So there is actually a separate armour value for mounts? Where can this be found?

**CaptainSolo** · 12-04-2006, 07:08

There isnt one as far as i know.Maybe it's factored into the units armour rating but as for a specific rating there isn't one.

**BigTex** · 12-04-2006, 07:53

Originally Posted by Furious Mental

So there is actually a separate armour value for mounts? Where can this be found?

There is indeed a seperate stat for mounts. It's not shown on the card, but its located in your export_descr_unit.txt file, but thats currently packed away. nipinghan1984 did manage to brilliantly get the unit.txt file partially unpacked, and it appears there are 4 levels of armoring, Heavy(unarmored), Barded (fuedal and related knights), Mail (self explanatory), and Armoured (big plated lancers and related cavalry). Will be able to delve more when we get the full unpacker.

This is important becuase the horse and man are counted as one by the combat system. If either one die's then they both die. The horse is a much bigger target and is general what is hit, so armouring the horse is very important for latter cavalry. It's why you'll notice gothic and lancer's are both inferrior statistically to most High period cavalry but will simply decimate them in any battle.

It would appear as though the Nubian and Berber infantry are switched around in their order. As I recall in MTW the nubian infantry was nearly a militia/peasant unit.

**Rothe** · 12-04-2006, 10:32

Agreed, the armor on the horses is a major thing. The annoying part of it is that it does not mention it on the unit description, making it difficult to evaluate the units. Same goes for some other details.

Also, I absolutely hate it when I see some 5/1 stats (att/def) on pikemen/halberdiers/whatever and it seems that they are still effective on the field. Why have unit stats shown on the unit card if comparing them yields no result over their usefulness? Why not just go back to M:TW1 style where it says "good attack" or "Very good defense" instead of numbers that make no difference.

I suppose that the issue with the building order has to do with the italian heavy cav units. The Broken Lances for Venice are indeed heavy cav that you get later from cities than feudal knights from castles, but that is just the point. The BL's you get from just teching up city walls, so they need to have high upkeep to be balanced. So far, as Venice, I have used the Broken Lances as heavy cav along with Cavalry militia simply because they are available in Italy and I have no castles in Italy. There is no balance problem there.

The dismounted men-at-arms is a bug IMO, as they really have no advantage over dismounted feudal knights. The Mounted MAA may be better than Mounted FK because of the barding on the horses though - have not really tested this one out.

I suppose that just having two nearly identical unit types with building improvements has one upside, and that is to have a bigger pool of units, but since you only have 3 recruitment slots this is not really likely to be of any help.

**Kraxis** · 12-04-2006, 13:15

Originally Posted by BigTex

It would appear as though the Nubian and Berber infantry are switched around in their order. As I recall in MTW the nubian infantry was nearly a militia/peasant unit.

I would have to agree... Backthen they were a step between regular Spearmen and the Feudal Sergeants. They had nice morale and good enough stats but weak armour and a small shield. So they were a sort of funny but good unit because of their availability.