Stop the whining...

[PaulTa]

About the game being rushed for christsake! CA is not responsible for the game "being rushed", Sega is. So if you really want to bitch to someone about a game being rushed, go bug the crap out of sega instead of filling a support forum full of this crap.

If you're feeling really productive, why don't those of you who gripe about a "rushed game" go start your own damned production company so that you can give the developers all the time in the world.

End Rant.

[Yun Dog]

About the game being rushed for christsake! CA is not responsible for the game "being rushed", Sega is. So if you really want to bitch to someone about a game being rushed, go bug the crap out of sega instead of filling a support forum full of this crap.

If you're feeling really productive, why don't those of you who gripe about a "rushed game" go start your own damned production company so that you can give the developers all the time in the world.

End Rant.

because theyd be out of business in a week - thats why

this happens every time theres a new release - but with context of history it does become amusing to read all the 'rushed released beta' posts that reappear time after time

in most cases its the refuge of people who dont understand programming in the least - their first lines are I know alot about programming and IMO this game has been rushed without testing etc blah blah rubarb rubarb

generally this means a) they dont know anything about programming and b) its probably not a bug they are complaining about but mearly the fact the game didnt do what they wanted or expected it to

what gets me ... is why do they keep buying these games if they are continually so 'disappointed' ... like within days... if I was getting so little enjoyment from games (because I was never satisfied) like not even a minute of having the game people are complaining - I would stop playing...

whats the point.. if your not enjoying it stop playing... no one wants to hear from the many 'never satisfieds' who are holding out for 'their personal' perfect game

... Ill tell you now it aint gunna happen

so go and 'hold a candle' someplace else

edit...READ BETWEEN THE LINES... THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE GAME .... ITs YOU

[Zoltan]

One rule of thumb is that the better a game is, the more whining you'll get. More customers * higher expectations / median age of customers.

Way too many 8 years old playing this, you should leave this to the pros kiddos.

At least this forum is not too bad, and when people here are not happy with something, they usually try and mod it. You should see the pointless shit that comes on the .com everyday.

[Yun Dog]

yeh I know ...in fact the .com posts were the ones I was referring to

relatively .. its been fairly constructive over here, which is why this forum is such a valuable and popular resource for FANS of the series

[CaptainSolo]

I always find it quite amusing how quickly the anticipation on the forums a week before release turns nasty when it is eventually released.I have no problems with anyone being constructive about things that are bugged or not their preference but some of the posts that say the game is unplayabe are just nonsense.
Ok were all paying customers and we have a right as a consumer to get a good quality product but the simple fact is no company can spend an equivalent amount of time to that of the community in playing and testing.

There are a few bugs to be winkled out and maybe a little balancing here and there but this is still a quality product in my opinion.I would rather have the game as is now and a couple of patches than wait for an eternity for it to come out while more testing was done even if it was up to the developer.

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Some moan cos they want to...some have valid points and issues..and some people are just fanboys and cannot accept criticism..

Lol.....

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Sadly, what you're saying is ridiculous and extremely ignorant.

FACT: A large proportion of players think something is wrong with the game and CA have confirmed this especially in regards to the AI.

and its because they don't understand programming ??? Really!

It's probably not a bug

???

If this were true then there wouldn't be any need for a patch.

If your not enjoying it stop playing

I am sure they are enjoying it. They just want some things fixed that need fixing.

The game was rushed! but this is probably not CA's or Sega's fault. Its simply the standard of games today. As long as people are prepared to buy them they will keep releasing them in such condition. They certainly wont go out of business for doing this. Rather the contrary.

Just for the record CA is owned by Sega.

[PaulTa]

Ok, "fanboy" has to be one of the least intelligent things I've heard on this forum in a long time. I'm not a fanboy, I'm G R A T E F U L for a great game with infinite replayable value and a great support team of developers who care. Do I expect the game AI to pull a Erwin Rommel on me? Of course not. Is the AI a huge step above most games that have the enemy run a direct route to engagement? Miles ahead. In fact, that phrase pretty much characterizes the Total War series... Miles ahead.

Do I think that some of these argumentative pre-pubescent teens who get everything they want because mommy and daddy spoil them rotten should shut their mouths and quit biting the hand that feeds them? Why yes, I do.

[dopp]

It is precisely because the game can be patched/modded that there are so many complaint threads. We are bringing up issues in the hope that CA will take notice and fix them. If this were a console game people would just seethe in silence or find workarounds. We are also trying to generate discussion on whether modding them out is possible, or whether it's just a new feature that should be accepted (the 'charge bug' is as much a new feature as it is broken). Even if some people lack the ability to express themselves properly, it should not invalidate their concerns. Not everyone here speaks English as a first language.

[PaulTa]

Now let me clarify a little bit... I think that reporting bugs and issues is great, and one of the best parts of a supportive community. Without these things reported, the game wouldn't improve continually through patching. Here's the difference...

Johnny catagorizes the bug, tests the problem over and over, and then documents his findings and either posts here or sends the information to CA.

Billy, on the other hand, posts something like "Oh noes the AI didn't do a duble back flip... this game sucks!!!1shift1!! CA rushed the game cuz theyre munny grubbing pigs!!!"

Now one is constructive... the other is meaningless bitching and griping.

[ScrapTower]

I think the people whining about the whiners are more bothersome then the original whiners. This is a community of TW players and we will talk about whaterver we damn well please.

[Yun Dog]

Sadly, what you're saying is ridiculous and extremely ignorant.

FACT: A large proportion of players think something is wrong with the game and CA have confirmed this especially in regards to the AI.


If this were true then there wouldn't be any need for a patch.


The game was rushed! but this is probably not CA's or Sega's fault. Its simply the standard of games today. As long as people are prepared to buy them they will keep releasing them in such condition. They certainly wont go out of business for doing this. Rather the contrary.

Just for the record CA is owned by Sega.

OK so how have Ive been able to play this game for weeks and be completely happy with it - if its so bugged

and a word on the AI

pretty much this is the same AI as RTW, and even MTW and STW - showed similar AI responses to player moves etc

If they havent been able to perfect it in 4 builds of the game - then it certainly isnt going to be changed in a patch

I have no problem with constructive criticisms of the game - its the 'this game was rushed' - 'this game is unplayable' - complete BULL@$&# - that Im bored with reading


if you think the game is a piece of $^%#... then leave


dont let the door hit you in the @## on the way out

[ScrapTower]

Opinions are like butt cracks... everyone has one and they all stink. Post and let post.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

OK so how have Ive been able to play this game for weeks and be completely happy with it - if its so bugged

Are you aware that there are bug threads listing all the problems with the game on all the forums! Are you saying that you have not encountered a single incident. Remarkable!

and a word on the AI

pretty much this is the same AI as RTW, and even MTW and STW - showed similar AI responses to player moves etc

If they havent been able to perfect it in 4 builds of the game - then it certainly isnt going to be changed in a patch

A rather sad fact really! It does use the same engine as RTW. But CA have said that they can fix the passive AI problem with a patch. I hope they can.

[Whacker]

LOL!!! I was waiting for a few more of these types of threads to pop up. The good ol' .org is never one to disappoint. I shouldn't feed the trolls... but something does need to be said to this effect.

I see it like this. It all balances out in the end.

You get your fair share of what's labelled as the 'whiner' threads, mostly the newer folks who join up and don't bother to search for the topic already discussed, or just don't care and want to start a new thread. More than often it's just someone posting a complaint, without any new evidence or trying to create a dialogue. Meh. IMO these threads have been few and far between, and there are enough good folks at the .org who can "help" these new guys through the teething process and maybe mold them into more productive members.

The other side of this is the threads like this, that border on fanboyism. New and old members alike start these, usually after some completely arbitrary point has been reached where the "patience level" is breached and a rabid rage takes hold, and a post like this is born. Almost always it's some variation of "stop teh whining!" or "this game si teh best if u hate it u sux!" or "quit with teh bugs already we dont want 2 hear it!!111oneoneoneone".

I tend to think of both of these types as variations on "road rage". They both tend to cancel eachother out. Neither of these types of threads really contributes anything to the forum, the game, or the community in general. I still say that I like this game, but I do have a fair number of what I see as legitimate gripes. Participating in this community has only validated this even more for me.

My response to the OP and a few other posters in here is simply thus: if you don't like it, stop reading them. It's not that hard to do. Further, your opinions do NOT mean more than anyone else's. There are a fair share of us who think that parts of the game are completely unplayable. There are a fair share of us who think the game was rushed out the door. If you don't like this views, fine, don't read them, or ignore them. But do NOT tell us to "shut up" and be quiet. Constructive criticism must and will go on. If you stopped to think about it, those types of discussions actually do have real benefit to both the players AND the developer at large. Oh and by the way, you have absolutely no idea "who's to blame for the game being rushed", so don't even pretend that you know. Last and certainly not least, opinions, by definition, cannot be wrong.

Have a nice day.

[PaulTa]

My response to the OP and a few other posters in here is simply thus: if you don't like it, stop reading them. It's not that hard to do. Further, your opinions do NOT mean more than anyone else's. There are a fair share of us who think that parts of the game are completely unplayable. There are a fair share of us who think the game was rushed out the door. If you don't like this views, fine, don't read them, or ignore them. But do NOT tell us to "shut up" and be quiet. Constructive criticism must and will go on. If you stopped to think about it, those types of discussions actually do have real benefit to both the players AND the developer at large. Oh and by the way, you have absolutely no idea "who's to blame for the game being rushed", so don't even pretend that you know. Last and certainly not least, opinions, by definition, cannot be wrong.

Have a nice day.

It's not exactly that easy.

I do avoid the posts that look like blatant gripe posts. Oh hey, a militia thread... well some guy thinks the game sucks and he hates CA. Oh well, I'll read the thread on guilds... hey, some guy thinks that the guilds make the whole game shit and he wants to assault the CA team... maybe the mongol thread? Nope, another guy posts about how his life is ruined because some general's name is spelled with two e's instead of one.

Well it happens just one day? Nope. A week? I wish. Maybe a phase? No, it's been this constant stream of whining and griping and useless bitching since day one... blah blah blah, meh meh meh meh meh, I hate my life, I hate this game.


And secondly, I'm tired of being labeled as some fanboy. I've got accounts on Agecommunity.com, Toast05. Check the posts if you aren't just being an inflammatory jerk with your comment when you label me a fanboy and discard my opinions. I was a huge critic of Age of Empires 3 because it was very flawed, but MTW2 is just awesome, and I've played all the way since MTW original. The game is pretty polished for a first release (of course there are going to be kinks to work out, but that's life in the game industry), and the devs look like they're sincerely interested in panning the bugs out. This incessant whining is just annoying, and coupled with the stress of finals week, it's grading on my nerves.

I know that this post wont stop all the whining, but hopefully a few people will realize that their gripes are bothering other people and stop.

[Zoltan]

Hey whacker, I think the OR (original rant), was about whining. I don't think posting and working on buglists, or analyzing game mechanics was targeted in anyway, far from that.

We just tend to see an amazing amount of posts with uppercaps words like BROKEN, BUGGED or RUSHED with a 2 liner or no concrete analysis of the problem, and waaaay to many exclamation marks. If I was a CA guy, I don't think these would encourage or help me to make better games.

Oh and sir, let me just tell you respectfully that if I get the word fanboy once more, I shall bite your head off in a most un-chivalric way. People are just as entitled to defend their favourite game as they are to criticize it - in a constructive manner. Praising the good points feels just as important to me as pointing out the ones that need fixing.

[Whacker]

It's not exactly that easy.

I do avoid the posts that look like blatant gripe posts. Oh hey, a militia thread... well some guy thinks the game sucks and he hates CA. Oh well, I'll read the thread on guilds... hey, some guy thinks that the guilds make the whole game shit and he wants to assault the CA team... maybe the mongol thread? Nope, another guy posts about how his life is ruined because some general's name is spelled with two e's instead of one.

Well it happens just one day? Nope. A week? I wish. Maybe a phase? No, it's been this constant stream of whining and griping and useless bitching since day one... blah blah blah, meh meh meh meh meh, I hate my life, I hate this game.

That's your opinion which you are entitled to. I have not seen too many threads that I'd lump into the 'whining' category, though there have been several.

And secondly, I'm tired of being labeled as some fanboy. I've got accounts on Agecommunity.com, Toast05. Check the posts if you aren't just being an inflammatory jerk with your comment when you label me a fanboy and discard my opinions. I was a huge critic of Age of Empires 3 because it was very flawed, but MTW2 is just awesome, and I've played all the way since MTW original. The game is pretty polished for a first release (of course there are going to be kinks to work out, but that's life in the game industry), and the devs look like they're sincerely interested in panning the bugs out. This incessant whining is just annoying, and coupled with the stress of finals week, it's grading on my nerves.

I know that this post wont stop all the whining, but hopefully a few people will realize that their gripes are bothering other people and stop.

I didn't label you as a fanboy. My exact words were " The other side of this is the threads like this, that border on fanboyism." Yes, I do think your OP borders on fanboyism. That is my OPINION, and it is not a personal attack, whatever you choose to think, nor is it calling you a fanboy. There's no insinuation or reading between the lines to be had, my post was pretty straightforward and should be taken at face value. Nor did I dismiss your opinions at all, I don't think you read what I stated. I said that YOUR opinions do not mean more or less than OTHERS, simple as that.

As I stated to another member in another thread; I really am jealous of you in some ways, in that you are not experiencing these bugs of "matters of taste", or being able to ignore them and enjoy the game. There have just been a large number of them that I've experienced and no matter how I tried, they started to ruin the game for me. I'll respectfully disagree with you on the "this game is pretty polished" statement. The game is fun, but some aspects just left too bad of a taste in my mouth, hence why I'm waiting for the patch. And I keep saying this, I demand good quality in a product up front when I fork over my hard earned cash for it.

Oh and sir, let me just tell you respectfully that if I get the word fanboy once more, I shall bite your head off in a most un-chivalric way. People are just as entitled to defend their favourite game as they are to criticize it - in a constructive manner. Praising the good points feels just as important to me as pointing out the ones that need fixing.

You won't get any disagreement from me here at all re: the second bit of your statement.

RE: the first part (I'm not calling you a fanboy)

The Black Knight always triumphs. Have at you!

{Arthur takes off his last leg)

(glancing at missing arms and legs)
All right, we'll call it a draw.
Come, patsy!

Runnin away eh?! You yellow bastard, come back here and take what's comin to you!! I'll bite your legs off!!!

[Yun Dog]

There is a accepted procedure for identifying and reporting problems in the game - which are then report to CA in a constructive and elloquent manner - once they have been tested and checked that they are actually bugs. The members of the community that do this - do an awsome job and the game is improved and better for it.

But they arnt the people we are speaking of here

unconstructive venting by crybabies - posting threads they know full well no one is going answer - eg Theres a problem with the AI - oh well heres a fix for that

WAKE UP

and if liking this game makes me a FANBOY - then great I am one - and proudly so

so what does that make the whiners

and why are they trolling around a FAN SITE sniping at people who do like the game or posting useless whining threads

likewise theres no need for you to come in this thread and defend the whiners either

if its a case for the glass half full or half empty - then I choose to see it half full.... its thats a fault then....

as far as standing up for the game and dismissing the glass half empty crowd... is the whining in any way constructive .... ever


and does it ever achieve anything when most of the issue they raise have already been logged, flagged, and moved on from ... by members of the community who are part of the solution

[ScrapTower]

There is a accepted procedure for identifying and reporting problems in the game - which are then report to CA in a constructive and elloquent manner - once they have been tested and checked that they are actually bugs. The members of the community that do this - do an awsome job and the game is improved and better for it.

But they arnt the people we are speaking of here

unconstructive venting by crybabies - posting threads they know full well no one is going answer - eg Theres a problem with the AI - oh well heres a fix for that

WAKE UP

and if liking this game makes me a FANBOY - then great I am one - and proudly so

so what does that make the whiners

and why are they trolling around a FAN SITE sniping at people who do like the game or posting useless whining threads

likewise theres no need for you to come in this thread and defend the whiners either

if its a case for the glass half full or half empty - then I choose to see it half full.... its thats a fault then....

as far as standing up for the game and dismissing the glass half empty crowd... is the whining in any way constructive .... ever


and does it ever achieve anything when most of the issue they raise have already been logged, flagged, and moved on from ... by members of the community who are part of the solution

"so far as what ive seen the score card is

graphics: excellent

Tactical AI: fail

Strategic AI: fail

Diplomacy: fail"

Why do you bitch about that which you agree with? There is your score card remember fanboy? Whining about whining is like well, its worse. What part of general discussion dont you understand?

[Yun Dog]

booo hooo my game dont work


cry me a river baby

[BigTex]

"so far as what ive seen the score card is

graphics: excellent

Tactical AI: fail

Strategic AI: fail

Diplomacy: fail"

Why do you bitch about that which you agree with? There is your score card remember fanboy? Whining about whining is like well, its worse. What part of general discussion dont you understand?

And whinning about someone who's whinning about whinning is?

The Tactical AI is great, if you dont have that god awful passive AI. Which was a quick attempt to fix a problem. CA quickly said that it was a bug and they immediatly would have a patch available. Now they've gone a little further to include even more bug fixes in those patches.

Strategic AI: Win, play on VH.

Diplomacy: Amazing, by far the best in any TW game and one of the best diplomacies in alot of games. Now there is of course a minor bug with this, if your one of those gamers who likes to reload a game alot. After a reload there's some weird tendency for the game not to take into affect the recent history of massive battles, and overrall power of the player. When offering a ceasefire it may be a very generous offer, but after a reload on that same turn and after moving nothing changing no variable's the offer will be very demanding. One solution for this is to just wait a turn, somehow that updates the AI and it will be back ot very generous.

Great game. A few very minor bugs, all games have them, this one has very few.

[ScrapTower]

What about whining about the whiners who are whining about the people who are whining about the original whiners?

Thats not my score card dude, thats the self proclaimed fanboy's. I was lashing out at him because he likes to raid threads and post useless junk and change the subject.

[Xaziv]

Criticism is a good thing --- threads like this are not. Tell me, has anything productive came out this thread? Has anyone learned something? Seems like just a bunch of people complaining about certain things.

Without criticism games would suck. Encourage the whining, discourage the spamming.

><

[Yun Dog]

What about whining about the whiners who are whining about the people who are whining about the original whiners?

Thats not my score card dude, thats the self proclaimed fanboy's. I was lashing out at him because he likes to raid threads and post useless junk and change the subject.

quote me anywhere I posted that...

see its blatant lies and stupid nonsense like that that pisses people off

your just posting stuff to bait people... and I got all the time in world

I think threads like this can have their uses

sometimes its good to let a little water on board.... it flushes out the rats

[ScrapTower]

I never lie and i dont need to quote you. Here is your post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...72#post1227572

Yeah you know... the glass is half full guy, thats him.

[PaulTa]

Hey, no one on here is saying that the game is without flaws. The passive AI bug is an issue that has been documented and commented on at least a thousand freakin' times, but the AI is OVERALL still pretty decent.

I just got done playing a battle in my HRE game where I converted bologna to a castle. I had my zweihanders, armoured sarges, and merc crossbowmen against a huge mess of milanese italian militia and crossbowmen.

The enemy army lined up and took some of the bolts, but the cavalry decided that they didn't like being hammered and charged... well my armored sarges finished them off, and I moved in my own zweihanders in a braveheart sort of fashion.

Well the enemy army couldn't hold up against Imperial steel, and routed... but as I was chasing down routers, I stumbled upon a group left by the "useless" AI that was left in the woods to hide. It was made up of Spear militia, their best units on the field, and most of their geonese crossbows. Well the crossbows started poking holes in my beloved zweihanders, and the italian spear militia gave a good fight when I finally managed to push my winded infantry into them.

The AI pulled a classic textbook routing ambush on my and claimed a few of my best infantry units as a result. They still lost the battle, but now my army will be more than a bit lacking when I siege Milan. This, in my opinion, is the pinnacle of gaming AI to date.

Now while I was watching the battle with nearly 2000 units on each side, I was admiring the graphics aspect. The enemy soldiers had detailed animations when they were hit by crossbow bolts, were covered in blood, and actually slumped and died instead of turning into ground cover immediately. This is what I call polish.

The game is amazing despite it's quirks, which is why I can't stand these nitpicks about little details that are either useless whining or issues that are already being addressed. I spent 50 bucks of my hard earned cash as a broke college student on this game, and I would have happily shelled out 75 bucks if I had a chance to test it out first and see how magnificent it is. Compared to other strategy games on the market, which is really my favorite kind of game, Total War wins by a landslide.

[Yun Dog]

I never lie and i dont need to quote you. Here is your post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...72#post1227572

Yeah you know... the glass is half full guy, thats him.

you really are a bottom feader arnt you

you quote a post I made regarding MTWII prediction - before the game even came out - and tried to pass it off as my opinion of the game



I really think you could troll a bit harder if you tried - hey look up some of my posts from years ago re: RTW - then youll really see somethin


hey look guys Ive got my own 'fanboy' / stalker

[ScrapTower]

Hey look guys, a hypocrite. I neednt look far to see you are full off wind.

[Shahed]

I agree whining is no good, but neither is ranting.

No whining here.

Trying to help make the game better, by stating my view on what can be improved, what is broken and what should be enhanced (new features).

Everyone is entitled to their opinions... If people feel the game is rushed then, they feel that way. Period. They have the right to express themselves.

People have a right to complain if they want or need to complain., and they should complain. Why the hell should'nt they ?

I'd say do as we did with all the TW games, play and test and play and test.. feed CA the info and hope for the best. If you have to complain then complain, for sure, complain.

That's all you can do... and oh yeah enjoy the game in the meantime.

I sure am !