Cav vs Inf

[Fenix7]

Elephant units as well?

Elephants are not Cav?

This is not the point. Have you not notice the sarcasm in my post?

As far I know someone is aware of this issues. Let's see what the patch will bring.

In reality there was very few occasions in middle ages that spears won against cavalry on the open field (days of phalanxes were forgoten in those days). Not to mention how real medieval armies look like, etc.

I don't know for any game (from the times when chess was invented) which would involve hisotrical accuracy, realism and gameplay on the highest level. There might be few games which managed to address first two issue but then the third one was dull or vice versa. This goes for STW as well. I don't deny it's gameplay value, but when talking from historical point of view, in reality things were a bit different.

I would like to see that cavalry units should be more expensive and strong spear unit should be able to win against cavalry unit.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

This is not the point. Have you not notice the sarcasm in my post?

Aeh sry And I tested the elephants and that made me more frustrated.

In reality there was very few occasions in middle ages that spears won against cavalry on the open field (days of phalanxes were forgoten in those days). Not to mention how real medieval armies look like, etc.

A game don't must be uber realistic, the most important is the fun. The most fun is in my opinion

swords beat spears and cav (if they hit them frontal)

cav beat swords (from side or back) and make spears fear if hit the hit came from rear

spears beat cav (frontal att) and lose against swords.

But I think such things I don't need to tell you :) But CA should read this or the marketing department, but I am sure the marketing department isn't interested in playing M2TW.

[CeltiberoMordred]

Anyways, something seems bugged, because even a supposed "weak" cavalry with a charge of 2-3 can erase an entire infantry unit in one second. As I said, it looks to me a new swipe effect.

And yes, even 5 cavalry can beat a 20 infantry army, and with half cost.

If CA wants these powerful cavalry charges, their cost should be increased a lot (which I don't like at all - a bad solution imho, tell me what can we do with eastern armies).

After the patch it can be even worse, because I think cavalry won't switch to swords and will keep their lances against missile units, making charges even stronger.

[JeffBag]

I think its a new swipe effect too, because hobilars tear through anything in a frontal charge too, which can't be the case. Charge bonus don't really seem at all important unless 80% of a unit dead isn't enough for you.

[Fenix7]

A game don't must be uber realistic, the most important is the fun.

Ah Die_Hard yet again you have not been reading my post carefuly.

I don't know for any game (from the times when chess was invented) which would involve hisotrical accuracy, realism and gameplay on the highest level. There might be few games which managed to address first two issue but then the third one was dull or vice versa.

If we summerize issue so far:

- lag
- cavalry charge
- spear issue
- musket effect
- "zoom to general's death"

If only this five things are going to be addressed it would be excellent - for a start. Anything else anyone would like to add - a bug or exploit?

[Paolai]

Pikes too much strong vs Swords

[CeltiberoMordred]

Interesting thread about cavalry and infantry:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74417

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

If we summerize issue so far:

- lag
- cavalry charge
- spear issue
- musket effect
- "zoom to general's death"

If only this five things are going to be addressed it would be excellent - for a start. Anything else anyone would like to add - a bug or exploit?

Your points and these problems :

- Better graphic sprites if you zoom out

- more and better maps.

- The fatigue is too low.

- exhaustion bars.

And then the mp mode would be playable. ATM a cwc tournament would be CCC (cav charge competition)

[CeltiberoMordred]

Even cavalry can defeat pikes, you just have to click behind them instead of charging. Cavalry will not suffer casualties at all due to the impact and everybody will switch to swords. Cavalry wins. Sad.

[CeltiberoMordred]

If we summerize issue so far:

- lag
- cavalry charge
- spear issue
- musket effect
- "zoom to general's death"

If only this five things are going to be addressed it would be excellent - for a start. Anything else anyone would like to add - a bug or exploit?

Check this one: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...9&postcount=31

[NihilisticCow]

"zoom to general's death"

Aonar/Vorcid/Vestorius/Lionnreach (tell me if I missed one ), do you mean that oh so useful cutscene in the middle of a battle that is really welcome at the most crucial moments? If you do, if you change event_cutscenes to 0 in the medieval2.preference.cfg file it seems to go away.

[Fenix7]

if you change event_cutscenes to 0 in the medieval2.preference.cfg file it seems to go away

Thank you for this info.

[RTKMercurius]

If you do, if you change event_cutscenes to 0 in the medieval2.preference.cfg file it seems to go away.

You could mention the need to open with notepad, instead of letting me ... .

[Orda Khan]

Anyways, something seems bugged, because even a supposed "weak" cavalry with a charge of 2-3 can erase an entire infantry unit in one second. As I said, it looks to me a new swipe effect.

And yes, even 5 cavalry can beat a 20 infantry army, and with half cost.

If CA wants these powerful cavalry charges, their cost should be increased a lot (which I don't like at all - a bad solution imho, tell me what can we do with eastern armies).

After the patch it can be even worse, because I think cavalry won't switch to swords and will keep their lances against missile units, making charges even stronger.

Certainly looks more like a bug than a feature

.......Orda

[Sparkythefly]

everything i understand says that calvary have an incredibly powerful charge but aren't so great in melee, so they retreat charge retreat, so instead of allowing them to do this have you ever considered forcing them to fight?

example of what i might do

knowing as i do that if calvary run into another calvary unit i know how to stop a calvary charge, now what unit to use, lets go with hobilars, sure there a crappy unit but there job is to absorb a charge not fight, you can buy tons of these things for nothing,
ok now i know how to stop the charge, now what to fight them with, lets go with any of the billmen there all like 13 attack and all the different versions have armour piercing and some spear bonus's against calvary. ok now i've got them stopped and fighting how do i prevent them from just leaving and charging again, park good calvary behind your infantry, once they try and retreat, go skirmish formation and charge your own horses at them, if they run use your longbowmen to pound them,

but not all factions are the same so what about some different ones, horse archers make good charge absorbers, they can force the charge with there shots, and then once there charge is broken move in with infantry,

but what if you dont just want the unit absorbing the charge to be dead on impact, well try a hide anywhere unit like assassins or hassashin to catch them by surprise while there chasing another unit but too far away to have started a charge, or how about instead of forming up the unit in front of the infantry, you intermix them, now they may break the first line of infantry but then they'll be mired in amongst the infantry, and if they try and retreat the horses go after them, alternatly, use light calvary to move at the last second and ruin that charge, turn your unit in the direction of there weapon and tell them to run, the enemy calvary will turn to compensate and the formed charge will turn into an unformed charge, now pounce on them with infantry.

use elephants to beat the charge at its own game, use hitpoints 2 units to make them charge and not kill a damn thing only wound a unit, and now they dont have any moral gain from the kills as you counterattack, use stakes back to back and wait for them to screw up and charge into them while there going after a unit, use siege engines to kill a few horses and put your infantry behidn them, half the unit charging will be blocked by the siege engines and the charge will become unformed and half the unit won't be fighting.

throw a few peasent units in front of excellent archers a BLOCK of infantry, not a line a line can be overwhelemed on its flanks, a block is 2 or 3 units deep, then get either light calvary or horse archers, if you get horse archers dont fight, let them charge and once the fight starts try to absorb the charge with peasents, and then flank with the horse archers to keep them from retreating.

i'm not trying to be rude but instead of calv are overpowered how about a how to beat those overpowered calv thread :P

[Darsh]

sorry but beat an all cav army is just a piece of cake with a balance amy you must just have 4/5 light cav to absorb the charge, pikemen and/or spearmen and even horse archers are excellent.
The only rule is: DON'T TAKE A LOT OF HEAVY INFANTERY OR YOU WILL LOOSE BADLY. (for the max heayv infantery is 3/4).

try to adapt it's not RTW.

[Grey_Fox]

A lot of the people have been playing since STW and MTW. We know how to adapt, and we also know how units should work. The cavalry charge is imbalanced.